• Connie

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  • mtman2

    There is no Constitutional allowance for the above mentioned twisted reversal of President Jeffersons letter of protection for the concerned Danbury Baptist Church.
    His letter only guaranted the 1st+2nd part of the First-Amendment to protect their guaranteed religious Rights from infringement.
    Time for truth telling= get a grip on reality and quit twisting clear definitions and even clearer reinforcement of the truth.
    Time for modern Atheist’s twisted childish games to end.

    • Barbara

      Google is paying 97$ per hour,with weekly payouts.You can also avail this.
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    • dpg01

      Time for twisted Atheist’s to just end.

      • mtman2

        These rabid believers in no God actually are in a God hating cabal.

        Most nonbelievers don’t care what other’s do= live and let live realizing most folks have a Faith.

        * But these rabid God haters are totally wanting to convert by force of law- a nation of mostly believer’s- to bend to their biased dogmatic exclusion of any Faith

        • dpg01

          I agree with you 100%

        • Ruth

          Google is paying 97$ per hour,with weekly payouts.You can also avail this.
          On tuesday I got a great New Land Rover Range Rover from having earned $11752 this last four weeks..with-out any doubt it’s the most-comfortable job I have ever done .. It sounds unbelievable but you wont forgive yourself if you don’t check it
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        • homer1057

          Here’s a FACT: Based upon the Earh and it’s mahnetic poles, the Earth’s magnetism has steadily decreased over the yeras! A Metal ship sails thru the Earths waters and from time to time MUST be demagnitized! Be it “DEGAUSSING” or “DEPERMING” IF it is not then the magnetic compasses will be OFF! So, w/ that said, IF we take the earthh bach, MILLIONS of years at an increased of 4 tenths of an increase for millios of years, guess what, things would be stuck, literally to the earth! CHECK This! Interesting FACT!

          • mtman2

            Sure is….and as to the spinning of the Earth there’s a certain speed at which the oceans would wash over the land constantly.
            Wonder how far back in geologic time that would be eh?
            Being it’s slowing every second-!

          • JOHN T. FOX

            THE EARTH ROTATES AS IT REVOLVES. THE LONGER THE SHOT, THE MORE THIS MATTERS AND MATH COMES INTO PLAY.

          • mtman2

            Yeah mathematically going backwards in time the faster it would be spinning- but 4.2 billion is “their” estimation which waaay out of kilter.
            Funny how evil-lucien-ist’s never go there. A Creator that can invent the material plane(atoms), space/ time and DNA can put things in place ready to go= ie- He’s God~!
            See –
            Trey Smith’s –
            “The Theory of Everything”

          • DrBarbara

            And that has what to do with atheists yamming about Christians?

        • Terry Maloney

          I challenge these non-beleivers to thing just a little deeper! Something or someone must have overall control of the physical nature of things, they are not just a happenstance. Who put the physical laws of nature in place?

    • jameskemmerer

      Truth,so liberating if they would just read and understand history.And how each state had their state church and the federal government needed to be restricted from doing that to the whole country. Thanks for your well stated evaluation.

      • mtman2

        Most folks do not know that the British State Church here- before “WE the People” rising up and throwing them out by force of arms- had total “religious control” via the Anglican element which decide if, when and where any other was allowed to even speak.
        Baptist’s were beaten, jailed, starved and some preacher’s even hung.
        * This was a real fear that somehow it could happen again whereupon potus Jefferson assured them the 1st two parts of the FIRST-AMENDMENT were immutable in that letter. The Baptist preachers were personally thanked by General Washington for their incredible dedication to the War for Independence as the “Black Robed Regiment” giving courage to OUR troops to withstand the terrifying British bayonet charges after the vollies were fired; both as leaders and Chaplain’s…
        OUR 3-Founding document are astounding acheivements…

  • Trump had to pander to the GOP religious nut base… even though he isn’t really particularly religion-addicted…

    • 0331Tap

      How about up yours bone head

    • TontonB

      So when Pres. Trump stands up for Christianity, he’s ‘pander[ing] to the GOP religious nut base.’ But when Nancy Pelosi speaks up for her Catholic church, she’s speaking from the heart?

      • William McClure

        Yet it is ok for the demorat party to suck up to the atheist jerk base, right?

        • IMSweetOlBob

          William:
          The democRAT party “Sucks Up” to any group of three or more people that they think will give them a vote. Just the way “our Hilly” did. As in “pandering”: To gratify or indulge an immoral or distasteful desire, need, or habit in a person with such a desire.
          They, the democRATs, have it down to a science !

      • curmudgeon VN Veteran

        And Biden will give you his rosary beads as an enema! Pelosi, Durbin and Biden are CINOS and only use religion to pander for votes!

    • raffaelecafagna

      I do believe you are Confused .

    • floral

      As bo pandered to the muslims?

  • MILES E DRAKE

    Weinstein and his “Freedom from Religion” gang are merely the stalking horse for the coalition of atheists, pagans and wiccans that call the shots in the political party that booed God three times (a significant number, that) at its 2012 convention. They want to marginalize, criminalize and finally suppress Christianity and replace it with an established religion of secular humanism, gaian paganism and Roman-type emperor worship. In the long run, these decadents and moral relativists will be swept aside by the death cult of Mad Mo and his adherents, which now controls the United Nations and ran the Mulatto House for the past 8 years. Most believing Americans will be headless corpses by then, but there may be some left who will derive karmic satisfaction as Ameriqa’s new mohammedan overlords go to work on the “Freedom from Religion” people with their swords. The only way to prevent this is to stop Weinstein now and to stand firm against their allies, the head loppers, hand choppers and vagina croppers of the “religion of peace”.

    • mtman2

      Good point to make for the fools that say “There is no God”.
      Only in the land of “freedoms under Liberty” – WE the People” have the God given right to defend- self+family, neighbors+community, State+nation.

      As Jesus said to “buy a sword” = just “don’t live by it”.
      The American populace is the most heavily armed nation on Earth.

      So first the U.N. would have to some how legalize their “Small Arms Treaty” on American soil(which is unConstitutional).
      potus Trump is now showing the U.N. and the world WE are American’s first and is putting America first right in their faces[thank-U Mrs. Niki Halley].

      They would have to invalidate the “Bill of Rights” then set about confiscating firearms without causing a civil war; while getting shotup in the process by the 100 million gun owners and 400 million firearms across the nation with trillons of rounds at the ready.
      Just as OUR Founders expected us to.

      • Ruth

        Google is paying 97$ per hour,with weekly payouts.You can also avail this.
        On tuesday I got a great New Land Rover Range Rover from having earned $11752 this last four weeks..with-out any doubt it’s the most-comfortable job I have ever done .. It sounds unbelievable but you wont forgive yourself if you don’t check it
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  • ronirwin

    I don’t understand why godless atheists can’t understand “nor shall any national religion be established”. If they had at least one functioning brain cell they could understand that the constitution simply prohibited the government from forcing citizens to be a member of any church. It didn’t ban anyone from practicing their religious beliefs however they saw fit. And, yes, it is still against the law to kill atheists.

    • William McClure

      Of course it’s perfectly ok for them to indoctrinate our children and grandchildren with THEIR atheist fairy tales of evolution, “climate change”(used to be global warming) revisionist history,political correctness, gender studies , and other quackery.

      • Anne Latella

        What person in their right mind would believe they are a decedent of a monkey or an ape?

        • floral

          an atheist….

        • Skip Moreland

          A realist who understood science and how it works. An intelligent person who understands facts. In other words, not you.

          • Robert Ingram

            Skip, I have no doubt you are just stupid enough to believe this stupid crap. What facts you ignorant fool? You have less intelligence than a gnat.

          • Rex Whitmer

            How would YOU then answer my question above? There are thousands, millions of galaxies, how did THEY come to be? A person whom would believe that things came to exist just by being would be a fool! Not only the creator is at question, but the things that were created out of what. Where there was nothing how did material things come to be??? Do you Robert have an answer? Did you, or did any other being or character create them and persons such as YOURSELFF?

          • Skip Moreland

            Well 1st, no scientist says the universe was created from nothing. The universe came from a enormous energy source which exploded. And science has the facts on how all those galaxies were created from that explosion. And as einstein proved, matter and energy are just two sides of the same coin. Energy becomes matter and matter becomes energy.
            The origin point for the big bang has been detected and studied to within a small spilt second after the explosion. They have studied the building blocks from that explosion that formed the stars and galaxies.
            As for a creator, no proof for one being needed or for one existing, nor is there proof of there not being a god. In order to create a universe, a creator would have to be outside the universe. Science doesn’t seek to prove god’s existence or non-existence.
            As for my creation, my mother and father created me in the normal manner of procreation.
            As you point out, there are many millions of galaxies out there. So your belief is that god created a whole universe just so a planet on the edge of nowhere should be blessed with life and doted on by this god. Right. No hubris there, that you are so special that a being who is so powerful is personally interested in you.

          • mtman2

            No and no- atoms are perfect mechanism’s that make up the material plane.
            Space Hubble proved all things material came into being in one spot the size of a pin prick- at one time= from somewhere outside of space and time Atoms are perfect mechanism’s that make up all inanimate things- DNA is required to create, orchestrate, and maintain life. No life can exist nor start without it= PERIOD.
            DNA is what directs life- no DNA = no life. DNA is a highly intelligent language that could only be brought into existence by intelligence beyond human comprehension.
            CHIRALITY is the wall no protein can pass thru to be life; they know this all yet feed you BS.
            Pursue God not the fools that obviously are living a paid lie to convince the gullible not to pursue any true critical thot.

          • Skip Moreland

            Atoms are just particles made from smaller particles. Even the electrons, neutrons, and positrons are made of smaller particles. And then they get divided even more.
            Well all earth life uses DNA, that doesn’t mean that some other mechanism can’t be used. We just aren’t aware of it. Some other form of coding could be used.
            DNA can be created in labs and we are understanding DNA, it is not beyond our comprehension. And if some great intelligence created it, boy did they screw up. There are many mistakes in the DNA of life. Nothing perfect about it. Most of our DNA is not usable, The chains are broken. Now why would a perfect being create something so haphazardly? But then again humans are poorly designed also. And yet a perfect god supposedly created us in his image. Boy did she/it screw up. You are the one who needs critical thinking.

          • mtman2

            1) Once again-atoms, quarks etc are perfect mechanism’s= no accident.
            2) No- “we” can not manufacture DNA- “we” cannot even assemble any form of living protein- proven fact= impossible to get by chirality to one chance in at least 10 to the 40,000 power.
            3) DNA may now be looked at in wonder ane even messed with;
            however (last time) is far more complicated in an amoebae then the Space Shuttle or a super computer= Molecupar Biologist Michael Denton. You are being hoodwinked bigtime.
            4) At the instant of conception a fertilized human egg (pinhead sized), contains six billion “chemical letters”.
            Equivalent info to fill 1,000 books 500 pages thick with print so small it woupd take a micrscope to read it! No accident Skip…
            If you are saying you bought into the impossibility of accidental perfect atomic structure/accidental DNA and “spontaneous generation” you are not thinking for yourself butvenjoy a shallow regurgitation of wuat Darwin himself would reject to your face today.
            Moreover I personally know Christ as far more real then the veiled 3rd dimension our mortal world of entropy consiste of.
            If you really seek Him He will reveal Himself to you as 100’s of millions have already known= more real than these above created pointers to His intelligence and power from beyond dimensions we are limited to that are in timelessness – as He invented time itself. The 1st+2nd Laws of Thermodynamics Skip- with Rules of Entropy discount that reversal as totaloy impossible and they are the foyndational laws of any true science= not the suppositional indoctrination of the socialist/Marxist that are now in control by a hugely disimformational agenda for a purpise long aho prophesied in Scripture many times over= to the statistical mathematical probability far greater than the above stats on the impossibllity of spontaneous generation.
            So if your not afraid do read an Atheist’s pursuit of the nonexistant Creator by Lee Strobel in his book-
            “THE CASE FOR A CREATOR”
            – +/OR –
            THE voluminous books that make the case by increasingly large number of scientist’s that like myself and millions know and can see what those like yourself are avoudijg in fear of finding yoyr foundations shaken to the core..m

          • floral

            We DON’T understand DNA and the nucleaic acid research goes well beyond DNA and the researchers are confounded at the complexity they have found.
            Do you not think that the perfection God wrought with His Creation could have been damaged by “sin”? We humans build and it decays. We design and it is faulty and no matter how we try, we cannot prevent design flaws. We are not capable of it. Do you know anything about fractals?

          • Rex Whitmer

            Okay, an energy source. Where did that come from? Things do not just happen. With somewhat of a scientific background, I can tell you that nothing “just happens”. There has to be a cause. All of those galaxies didn’t just suddenly come into being, nor did a large source of energy just suddenly happen without being created. What is life? You live and I live, but why, and how? The small things, things we cannot even see live also, why and how? Unfortunately Einstein was at best an agnostic, and could see no possibility of GOD. All of his wisdom came from his own mind. He was not a hands on scientist, just a theorist! Some of his suppositions seem to work out, while others have, while not been completely rejected, are at least relegated back to theories. I used to play around with the ideas that perhaps our planets and solar systems were atoms and molecules, but even that won’t work out. Perhaps some day in his own time, GOD will reveal to us, to mankind, who and what he is and why we are?

          • Skip Moreland

            We don’t know. That is the fun of science, to explore the unknown. To learn what we don’t know. We know how those galaxies came into being. It is called facts.
            As far as life existing, there doesn’t have to be a reason. And life started small, unseen with the naked eye. Life is matter. It consists of proteins easily made in nature, proteins that combine quite readily to build larger proteins. We have replicated some of the process, making DNA in labs. Science is showing that life can occur naturally.
            Einstein not a scientist, hmm. You realize that he had to prove his theories, which he did with math. Math is used quite a bit in science. It is one of the ways to prove theories. As for religious beliefs, Einstein usually kept his views silent, though he did make one comment about one of his guesses, that god didn’t roll dice. It was one of the times he was proven false. He thought the universe was not expanding and current science facts show that it is.
            The way you people have structured god, why would such a being concern itself with one little planet among a universe full of planets? The god of the hebrews was a much smaller god. But then the hebrews didn’t have any idea of the size of the universe.

          • floral

            Yes the Hebrews DID understand the size of the universe and Jehovah God was all powerful, all knowing. They KNEW. “For all have sinned and fallen short of the Glory of God” “I am no god, but a worm, from dust I came to dust I will return ( in despair of unable to be with God).
            God created all, some for wonder and study and to teach Man his place in the grand scheme of God’s Plan for Man.
            Christians did not “structure” God, HE revealed HIMSELF to those who have faith in HIM.
            For reverence to God is the beginning of wisdom. A fool has said in his heart “there is no god”.
            The difference between mere Christianity and religion is: in Christianity Man reaches down to HIS children. Religion is where men design a god they can understand and/or control.

          • Rex Whitmer

            You still didn’t tell me where that burst of energy or whatever came from? As far as Einstein went, if you’ll study about him and not his theories, you find that he was actually a pretty mixed up person in his personal life. He was called a Philosphical Theorist. That meant he thought about a lot of things and supposedly he thought a bit more clearly than many others did. For instance he theorized that it should be possible to create an atom bomb. He theorized knowing what other scientists had discovered how it could be created. It gave the actual creators a starting point that wasn’t too far off. You and I exist. We are able to think to speak and do many things. To what end? I happen to believe in a creator whom I term a God. Whether he or she was the first intelligent being that existed or not, I’ve no way of telling. How the first thing was created, who knows? To my knowledge, nothing comes from nothing. Where all the solar and otherwise bodies floating in space came to be. We are fairly certain that the earth and out solar system is old, but not anywhere nearly as old as the entire galaxy. Being religious, I pray for many things and receive many answers, but there are still many that I have yet to have answered. I don’t know how he or she was created, but I accept the knowledge that he created this earth and all that’s on it. I believe that someday in the future, that many of my questions will be answered and I will experience a life much more cogent than this one. You have your right to believe as you will as I claim for my right to do so. I ask the questions about the beginings not knowing the answers, but hope to cause others to ask and find as well.

          • David Greene

            You people?

          • floral

            In the Beginning, GOD created The Earth and The Heavens. Why did HE do it, does not matter nor does it disprove HIS CREATION.

            You voiced the Big Bang theory (there is NO proof nor evidence for it) as an “enormous energy source that exploded? How is that more credible than God being the enormous energy source that CREATED the Heavens and the Earth and ALL that is within?

          • David Greene

            That last sentence would indicate that you are getting close to understanding that God loves everyone and everything that he has created. Rather than deny it outright, consider the possibility.

          • Skip Moreland

            How can you believe that the earth is only 6000 yrs old when all the facts say otherwise?
            Science has created our current technology, all based on facts. And each field of science is tied to other fields and bolstered by more facts.

          • mtman2

            Science is only uncovering what already exists in fact.
            The foundational Laws of the 1st+2nd laws of Thermodynamics with rule by Entropy disallows the upgrading appearance of anything as ALL THINGS ARE IN A STATE OF DECAY = this is the foundation of all scientific laws.
            Once you recognize this then pursus what that means and where that leads= NOT told you their Marxist indoctrination.
            Til then- you will only regurtitate what they told you.

            Time to think outside their box.
            This knowledge is out there.
            I know everything you do and more yet realize that is not truth;
            What many of us now have understood beyond their indoctrination is hugely outside regular paid curriculum.
            Moreover 10’s of thousands in various arena’s of scientific studies agree.
            See Lee Strobel’s – “Case For A Creator”
            Trey Smith’s – “The Theory of Everything”
            Just for starters…

          • Skip Moreland

            Of course science is just discovering what already exists. That is the purpose of science to discover the facts about the universe and the world, knowledge that we have never had.
            Yes entropy, the problem is that we haven’t hit that point yet, the universe is still expanding. So entropy is not affecting us yet.
            Science is not marxist doctrine or any kind of doctrine. It is the pursuit of facts and knowledge. It cares not about doctrine. And all the facts say that the world is far older than 6000yrs old.

          • Hopeful_One

            Science in theory is meant to be the pursuit of truth regarding the universe and the thing therein. However, scientists, like most politicians, are affected by who pays their salary and gear their science in the direction of those paying their bills. Many scientists are corrupted by money, therefore that which passes for science in many cases is purposely altered to please their masters. Many honest scientists are blocked or defunded because their “facts” don’t match the desired outcome.

            There is much proof of the young age of the earth if you dare to look. There is no such thing as “facts” in regards to determining the earth age because there is no way to verify any scientific process to determine that. They are guesses based on bad science. However, those that have studied the Grand canyon and the age of the lower rock formation vs the age of the upper rock formations have surprising results. You should look that up.

          • floral

            Science cannot discover the ultimate facts. It is everchanging with each new discovery.

          • floral

            You assume too much. God created the Universe in 6 epochs or ages (learn Biblical Hebrew) Until the Earth started orbiting the Sun there was no “day” of 24 hrs more or less and the word used in Hebrew does not mean 24 hrs-it is an indeterminate time, known to God. Recent archeology discoveries and botanical research shows the first evidence of man and agriculture to appear suddenly fully formed approximately 12-14k yrs ago in the area thought to be The original Garden of Eden. That is NOT inconsistent with the Biblical account in Genesis (which means beginning or origin as you SHOULD know)

          • Skip Moreland

            Actually at the same time period, agriculture was started in the indus valley and other places. I am quite aware of the genesis, of which there are two differing accounts in the bible. However humans were living well before agriculture was discovered, as hunter gatherers, which is not mentioned at all in the bible.
            And it is most likely that some agriculture was practiced before that time period. The problem is that until humans started building permanent structures that would endure somewhat intact for thousands of years, any settlement that consisted of wood and hides would be completely destroyed by time.
            For example, human settlements of 50000 yrs have been recorded. Is it possible that they had some form of agriculture, yes. The use of some caves show that generations lived there, long before we find the first structures that were built.
            And humans traded across long distances before they settled down, they had a commerce of sort that items were traded across the land and thus so would ideas be traded from people to people. So once agriculture was thought of, it would spread.
            Of course until the earth came into being there was no day on earth. But at 4.5 billion yrs old, the earth has had close to a 24 hour day since then.
            Every year we find evidence that pushes back into time when humans accomplished something. To say suddenly appear means that we haven’t found the earliest settlements, there are many places still unexplored

          • floral

            And every exploration supports the history recorded in the Bible. You are NOT aware of Genesis. There are NOT 2 different accounts.
            Few if any people believe that Genesis says a literal 6000 yrs of 24hr days, which is your (false and illogical) assumption.

          • Hopeful_One

            Fake news!

          • floral

            You, skippy, are blind and your arguments and reasons are pathetically petty and false

          • Hopeful_One

            Total BS.

          • floral

            Very enlightening! you must love excrement. You know my comment is excrement HOW? Did you study Biblical Hebrew or the Old Testament OR the archeological digs that purported to disprove the Old Testament account of history and ended up proving its accuracy?

          • Hopeful_One

            Nope. Studied the Bible and other scientists who are Creationists. Their evidence is compelling for those with an open mind. The Bible is really sufficient, though. But I will not change your mind. Only those who receive the love of the truth will find truth.

          • floral

            Are you assuming that I am an atheist or that I agreed in any way with skippy? Did you read what I said in response to what skippy says, which I agree is false? I too have studied the Bible (evangelical seminary) and learned Biblical Hebrew (I have forgotten most but it served me well in hermenuetic(sp) and believe in Creation. All of the Christian scientists I know that are Creationists accept that the word “day” in relation to the Creation, does not mean a 24 hr day AND that agriculture and man appears to have suddenly burst on the scene about 14k years ago, with all plant life ready to cultivate and feed, along with cattle and other animals for food. AND that God CREATED it all. What we don’t know is how God “measured” time or just created the appearance of age. The wisdom of God confounds all attempts of man to know more than God or to elevate man above God. The more “science” uncovers, the more questions.

          • Hopeful_One

            I am not assuming you are an atheist. You have already heard the arguments of scripture that refute your heretical ideas, so I will not reiterate them. One cannot understand the scripture without the direct help of the Holy Spirit. He is the one who guides into all truth. Thus one must be born from above to receive the Spirit and a new nature and renewed mind and conscience. To not believe the clear teaching of scripture that says all was created in 6 days, is to not believe God’s testimony.

            The meaning of life and its purpose has already been made clear by Christ. His gospel, the gospel of God, reveals it. If you don’t know it, you have not been born again and do not know the Lord like you think.

          • floral

            You are very judgmental and apparently lack understanding. None of my comments contain “heretical” views and there have been NO arguments from Scripture that refute anything. You have no ability to discern the heart of others-only God can do that. I accepted the Gift of Salvation. The Hebrew word does NOT indicate or mean 6 24 hr days and for you to say so is very narrowminded and inaccurate. You are claiming knowledge that only God has.
            I KNOW that the meaning of life is revealed by Christ and was revealed to the Jews. I said SCIENCE could never answer the questions of meaning of life, orgins et al.
            You might try not to be such an unthinking illogical uncomprehending mumpsimus. You will never win hearts and minds to Christ with YOUR arrogant attitude, and you will drive Christians, esp new ones, to not want to fellowship with you. I will tolerate your lack of understanding, but will not accept that YOU are any authority on the Bible or what or who is Christian.

          • David Greene

            Is this supposed to make a contribution to the discussion? Too often when we can’t refute, we throw insults!

          • Rex Whitmer

            Wonder how the first living creature came to be alive, even more where did all the stars in this and other galaxies come from. It would seem that some how things were created from nothing? When I meet GOD, and I know I shall, these are some of the questions I will ask, if I’m allowed to ask! Did the galaxies come from nothing? If I’m allowed to ask, when I meet GOD, and I’m certain I shall at some point in time, these are just a few of the questions I’ll ask, if I’m allowed to ask!

          • mtman2

            God is Jesus in the flesh so for you to go into the presence of His home with Him is only by accepting His dying in your place to cover your sin debt to be allowed there; like a germ free zone.

            For this purpose He came- if only for you- as this is a fallen world and He is your only redemptive venue to His house which is preparing for those who believe and trust His work on Earth and the cross unto Ressurrection. Jesus is your only gats by which to enter.
            Your eternal spirit depends on His propitiation only by your personal choice of Him as your only hope of salvation.
            Then when time no longer exists you can ask anything and see what now is veiled + limited by our being veiled in fleshly mortal existence. Worlds of knowledge, incite and creative abilities.

            Mortality which He put on to come for us by paying with His mortal life for your becoming Holy in His sight as your sin nature is blotted by the shedding of His truly “innocent” blood being the only perfecabilitieswho could take your place for judgement= the lawyer that gets your case thrown out of court= once “saved” your’re free- IN and BY HIM.

            Eternity awaits your spirit once separated from your soul;
            WHERE you spend eternity- depends on what you do with Christ.
            He has already done the work and salvation if you choose is His personal gift to you= paid for in full.
            See Him for the fact that only He is truly Holy and lived a sinless life while in human form- faced mortallity thru brutality as a sin offering in your place.

            We all die- then if saved see Christ as eternity future= He created the world from timeless existence beyond human comprehension yet He will reveal Himself to you if you truly seek, acknowledge and worship the transcendant Love he gave freely- again if only for you.
            Do read the- ” Gospel of JOHN “

          • Rex Whitmer

            Oh, I’ve read the entire Bible many times, my friend. I am a lifetime Christian, and know Christ quite well. I asked the questions because these anti Christians seem to think that mankind and all the marvels of the universes all about us, just came into being for no reason at all. Man cannot create matter, neither can he create life. That should be enough for them to realize that all of that didn’t “Just Happen”. Time is another marvel. Why are we here? All of these questions cannot be answered by non-believers.

          • mtman2

            They do not want to think they might be accountable so grasp an illusion of an “accidental” worldview as reality.
            As if suddenly “spontaneous generation” might be now be a reality; disregarding how crazy that actually is.

          • DrBarbara

            We shall have the mind of Christ so we won’t have to ask, we’ll just know. Wow, I can’t wait! What a glorious day that will be!

          • shortround

            AMEN SISTER !!!!!!! If Christians would follow 2 Tm. 2:15 and allow the Holy Spirit who is the third person of the Trinity to teach us, and just before Jesus ascended back to heaven, John 14:16, Jesus said that he would send us another Comforter that He may abide with us forever. Vs. 17 said that He is the spirit of truth. A Comforter and if we would actually listen to His direction’s, life for the Christian would be much more fulfilling, much happier !! God calls us to be witnesses. We are here to witness to the lost and to worship God. It is good to study and there are a lot of Godly men who have written good books on doctrine and etc. who have put years of studying into their work. And God has blessed them, and you and I get the meaning of a passage that they have studied by studying their word. While all along seeking the counsel of the Holy Spirit. It is kind of a short cut. And remember, we don’t make a doctrine out of one verse out of the word of God. Did you ever notice, that when you are in the word everyday, talking with the Spirit, seeking God in fervent prayer, and witnessing how happy you will be. And then God uses you to bring some one to His saving knowledge. That’s it, you know that you are doing right. AMEN !! How Great Thou Are. I best leave it there, I could talk forever about my Savior !!! God Bless All

          • DrBarbara

            I know what you mean! I am a minister and a teacher~~ however I love to preach the deep truths of the Word. That is my Earthly passion. But to just spend time with Holy Spirit is so refreshing and joyful, I find that I am looking forward to time with Him more and more.

            Blessings to you and yours~~ have a wonderful New Year!

          • floral

            I have read the recent Journals of Nucleic Acid research ( the researchers of DNA and RNA). They no longer “believe” much less conclude that evolution as was theorized (with no real evidence to support) in Origin of the Species is the current “thinking”. In fact, “modern” evolutionists have discovered that single cell organisms are extremely complex and contain ALL the genetic material available in each and every “species”, that our human “species” is more closely related to mouse DNA that to “chimps” or “gorillas”, that instead of the straight line progression depicted by Darwin (with little evidence to support) “evolution” is more like a Tree of life with many branches, that ALL life including plants, share to a greater or lesser degree the same basic DNA and RNA. The deeper they delve and the more knowledge gleaned the less they can theorize about how life came about. RNA/DNA/nucleic acid is so complicated it exceeds the capacity of the largest computer ever imagined. The evidence as it stands now (it is ever changing) is that the information in the nucleic acid exceeds numerical designations.
            Science is a TOOL not a philosophy, not a belief system, a TOOL to obtain information. The more we discover the less we know. Your definition of “realist who understood science” is not a definition, but an indication of you believing, having faith in something that is NOT God, cannot find or discover the meaning of life or its source. To you, science is god, but you are like a builder who constructs a house with no foundation, soil tests or without a clue of how to do it.

          • Skip Moreland

            That is true that we all share that genetic code. But it is also true that life expanded from that single cell into more complexity where life divided into groups and from those groups proceeded to become plants and animals, into amphibians, reptiles, and so on until modern life forms can all trace their origins to certain groups.
            Of course science is a tool, it is only the conservative mindset that keeps trying to paint science as a religion. When I say I believe in science, I am saying that I believe that using the tools will arrive at facts. And thus we can understand the universe and our world better. A far better way to understand using facts rather than some mythical creature having created everything. A being so powerful that created a huge universe so that the human race could be created. Why would god need so many galaxies for the human race to exist? And why would such a being (who would have to be outside the universe in order to create it) care about an insignificant planet in the middle of nowhere? A whole universe created just for the human race? I can’t even begin to say what kind of nonsense that is.
            Which is why I prefer facts, not fantasy.

          • mtman2

            No- “A single celled amoebae is far more complex than the Space Shuttle or a super computer ”
            stated by Molecular Biologist *Michael Denton.
            “For even proteins in a living cell to appear is like a tornado ripping thru a junkyard assembing a 747”
            stated by Atheist scentist Sir *Frederick Hoyle.
            Now this does not get past the wall of impossibiiity created by chirality- which even Pasteur understoox.
            No no you have been fed lie after lie. Do get yourself out of the box they put you in. Search for yourself not in their web…

          • floral

            No it is atheists and science worshippers who engage in the religion of science. As a tool, science does not yield “facts”. Each discovery supplants and makes the “assured results of science” a mockery and false.Science creates questions and can NEVER arrive at a source. So far, the only reasonable explanation of how life began and man was CREATED is by an intelligent being. just because YOU cannot conceive of anything beyond yourself, does not make it nonsense that an intelligent being, ie God created the Universe. Occam’s razor. Humans are limited but within us is the hunger and thirst for God to fulfill us. Our lives, our reproductive cycle all point to a Creator, who left us clues and evidence of HIS existence. Do you have a clue about fractals? That is prima facie evidence of Intelligent Design. Why NOT Jehovah God? The world, the universe, the Source, is bigger than YOU can or do imagine.Science can never answer the question, what is the meaning of life or how did we get here, and dream and think and why is there a moral sense? There is more in Heaven and Earth and the stars than is dreamt of in your poor philosophy, Skippy.

          • DrBarbara

            Great response, thanks. I believe just as you do. Our God created everything…… period. It is sad to watch these pitiful atheists try to explain the Universe.

          • David Greene

            Where are the intermediary fossils that Darwin said would be found in abundance in the fossil record? So far exactly zero have been found and the 100 years that Darwin said would prove or disprove his theory are long past. By his own writing his theory needs to be set aside.

          • David Greene

            There you go with the insults again.

        • The Orangeman

          Attention: Skip Moreland. The way some people in society are acting today, they certainly seem they have evolved little from the alleged ape stage. If one were not flawed genetically, and had the intelligence to understand the story of mankind in the Bible and equated this God-given mystery contained therein to current knowledge of genetics and neurophysiology, then they may just come to understand, the hard way, just who God and his laws really are. Wait until God zaps the nerve center at the base of their spine that is called ‘kundalini’ and attempts to send this nerve energy through flawed nerve centers in their skull and then they will know just who and what God is as they sting and burn from this excess energy–all because they never learned why Jesus is called ‘a savior’.. (I think the Bible calls that “going to hell’) YES, THERE IS SUCH A SCIENTIFIC THING AS KUNDALINI RISING, LOOK IT UP ON GOOGLE and stop putting believers who follow Christ in the regeneration process down.

          • Skip Moreland

            Actually scientific facts don’t acknowledge kundalini. There are people who believe in it, but there is no proof. And w/o facts and proof, science is not saying it is reality. Just because meditation might be a useful tool for people, doesn’t mean all the claims about it are true.

          • The Orangeman

            Sorry, but you are way behind on the facts and all the scientific variables. You had better review the proceedings of the R. M. Buck Memorial Society for the Investigation of Religious Experience, McGill University, 1966, on the observed biological effects of “Trance and Possession States”, and then ask yourself why, today, we are seeing the formation of, “The Emerging Sciences Foundation”, consisting of intelligent medical doctors, psychiatrists and historic religious/philosophical scholars getting to the bottom of why there are over 3,000,000 people from around the world hitting kundalini sites trying to understand just what is happening to their nervous system, and why some of them warn: “Danger – High Voltage”. Are you, in your arrogance, trying to brush them off as just a bunch of nut cases inferior to yourself? We think you have a lot to learn about the facts of life.

          • David Greene
        • mtman2

          People that choose to not want God in their business even tho their made in His image.
          They want to escape condemnation and consequence by disallowing belief in the very miracles around them.
          Choosing rather to believe in “spontaneous generation” and that everything came from nothing- esp atoms+DNA.
          Moreover that nothingness created everything…

          • shortround

            You are right mtman2. Why can’t they just believe in the first five words in the Bible, “In the beginning God created” And leave it at that and quite trying to prove it. Creation proves it !!!! Thank God.

          • mtman2

            Deep down inside they know;
            but they choose to be their own demi-god’s.
            Just to read in Red what Jesus said has brought men and women to their knees for 2,000-yrs.
            He said He was God the Creator-!

            Just what more does anyone want- God came to make a way for just each of us who believe- teaching us what real Love is and what Holiness means by example being the only one qualified to get the job done in a fallen world.

            Now He’s “Gandolf the White” after His death match with the great dragon= Tolkien was a Christ follower and that whole story was a Biblical analogy which he shared with his friend C.S. Lewis= both giants in the modern world of deep Faith.

          • floral

            Actually, Jesus said he was God. He voiced the HOLY NAME of God the Iam that I am, thought to be Yahweh. (the scribes never used the vowel points in the name they held as too sacred and holy to fully write) Jesus also said In the beginning was the Word-I am the Word the Truth and the Life. The Christ is the Incarnate God, the Unique Son of God, the Lamb of God. It is a mystery for now we see as through a dark veil but our eyes will be open and we will see clearly.
            You, skippy, are blind and your arguments and reasons are pathetically petty.

          • mtman2

            You speaking to me kid or someone named “skippy”?

            You seem full of yourself and quite arrogant as if you were an Atheist using Scripture to prattle on as if it were a weapon against believer’s.

            Not something a fellow believer
            would say in a body of believer’s.
            ie- A dicotomous oxymoron; with Pharisaical overtones of selfrighteousness exposed….

          • floral

            That would be PIONususR you are describing. I am not sure why I got that kind of response from you. What I said was what Jesus said when the Pharisees were baiting him said He was the Iam that I am and they called HIM a blasphemer for claiming to be God using the HOLY name that is translated as Yaweh(sp)
            I was replying to the comment that Jesus called HIMSELF God the Creator. HE did not exactly call Himself that, He called Himself the I am that I am, the Holy name.
            God the Creator in Genesis was the name Elohim(sp).

          • mtman2

            Wel Floral- your reply ‘to me’ appeared to end in several insult’s.

            *This after you laid Scriptural references in greater detail- as to what my quick reply post to “shortround”-alluded to- as Christ being God in the flesh.
            Seemed as if after you used Scripture in reference to talk down to me- then insulted me= I couldn’t figure it otherwise…after the following calling me –
            “skippy” – (also refers to a low intellect person)
            “blind”,
            and
            “pathetically petty”

            * Hateful Athiests use Scripture to battle my post’s regularly so it looked that way= my apology – Flora – for jumping the gun…

            I do on occasion myself call simpletons online – “Skippy”.
            It’s’ the Andrew Jackson in me to sometimes shoot 1st.

          • floral

            I will take this opportunity to apologize again. I did err by including the last sentence. I meant to respond only to Skip moreland with that, and my comment was artless though I intended only to support and amplify and add to your comment. Upon further refection, Jesus’ did say He was the Word and the Word was with God at the beginning (of creation?) so I was being a little too specific in saying that Jesus said HE was God the I am that I am, but it was an attempt to make the concept more emphatic and powerful to atheists, like skip m. who tend to troll you and me…..

          • mtman2

            Your certainly fine…. No doubt Christ Jesus, unlike us, is Powerful in all He is and did to where only true worship in recognition of His Holiness will suffice.
            We here being fleshly creatures cannot without a spiritual awakening and presence of the Holy Spirit even begin to fathom the depth and breadth of His Love let alone intelligence and power.

            However to the worldly lost- the creation itself is seen proof of a Creator-!
            It is the indoctrinating Marxist/socialist agenda to break the Christ following West by all means they can use.
            Which is why I intersect them at the role of “origins” where the rubber meets the road with evil-lucien= because nothing comes from nothing – ever-!!!

            And certainly not atoms+DNA; which points to an inscrutably intelligent Creator they can grasp enough to awaken from the brainwashing trance of an- “accidental everything”.

            Tho public education and academia of the young is a sure method in the shortest time, to usher in their NWO by the Globa-lust “money changers”.

            Tho the “useful-idiots” will fight tooth and nail for what they cannot even fathom themselves- occasionally some do- which is my goal. Others maybe later= Les Strobel types…investigating things later in time.

            They aren’t going to read Scripture or counsel with knowledgeable Godly scientist’s right now- so online debate seems to get info out into the public arena as many read post’s here and will ponder the info…

          • David Greene

            God created “ex nehilo” (sp)

          • floral

            Sometimes shooting first and letting God sort it out is in my first inclination, though I do try to be not so artless as I was in that reply. I was raised by the sons of pioneers(who were never without their arms) am descended from a LONG line of military all the way back to the American Revolution and through the Korean War, so I understand the reference and I too have been a subject of the atheists attacks, most notably morton and skip m. You too.

          • mtman2

            Funny you mention you background- my father fought Bolchevik terrorist’s in firefight’s with his 7mm Mauser as a 17yr old farm boy. To later flee to America- as did my Godly Mother also- they met here- both Lutheran’s – later Evangelical Lutheran.
            My father visited Martin Luther’s home several times as a boy.

          • floral

            We might be the same age. My parents were nominal Christians but ethical and moral and both came to the Lord before their deaths. (after all 4 of their offspring did ). Great story your parents. I worked with a Russian immigrant who met her husband, also a Russian immigrant, in Denver. He was a doctor in Russia but could not practice here.
            Even though I spent 3yrs in seminary (evangelical Protestant) I learned next to nothing about Martin Luther but he was the 1st Christian influence on me as a teenager.

          • mtman2

            Well Martin Luther created the Western Protestant World by standing up to the Rman Ca-tholic geo-political cult after true Christ followers had to hide during the Dark Ages the RCC created.
            He stood on the Scripture that- salvation is purely by the grace of God not the Pope, priest or Mary latin mumbo.
            He got Bibles into the hands of the common people and olearn to rad starting with children= the Protest-ant Movement.
            Of which the Pilgrims and Puritans were two directly from that movement so Luther indirectly founded America as a Christ and Scripture centered nation. All a really really big deal “WE the People” can now look back on.
            I’m named after my uncle born in 1889 killed in the Battle of the Somme. My father was born as Teddy Roosevelt took office after McKinley was assassinated, my paternal grandfather was bornthe same year Teddy was born= prior to OUR unCivil War.
            I’m not retirement age yet.
            Chronil9gically a 10yr old drummerboy in the Civilwar end at 1865 could have a son at 90(1945) who also had a son at 90(2035) who at the turn of the 22nd century only turned 65 having a grandfather who fought in the Civil War at his age of 90 it would be the year 2125.
            See so to me this whole generational brainwashing is foolishness.
            God fearing+Loving people shouldbe the same down thru the ages.
            It’s the Marxist “educators” that tell each new generation that they arewaaay smarter than their folks= “So just listen to us”

          • mtman2

            It was 2-AM when I wrote the reply below and kept falling asleep.
            I live quite remote all have barely have is cell service(no cable for miles) so use a Smartphone which has a virus that constantly rewrites sentences or erases them- so constantly have to fix almost everything I write. Sometimes several times and it wears you out constantly trying to keep everything corrected.
            I just went thru and tidied my response post below.

          • floral

            I have edited my “offending” post and added to my post that started We might be the same age.. Your post on Luther seems to be missing?

          • floral

            How was I Pharisitical and self righteous by what I said? Is it NOT TRUE that Christ said “I am the Way the Truth and the LIFE ? Is HE NOT the INcarnate God, the Unique Son of God, the Lamb of God?
            Do we not see as though through a veil darkly? Will not all be revealed ? Did not Jesus say “it is a mystery” and spoke in parables? Why would a believer NOT say what Christ said, about Himself? Atheists use select passages that they fail to understand as a weapon. I went to the foundation of the truth and the core of Christianity which is the Nature of Christ as revealed and His Words about Himself. Unlike Pio who seems to know only 1 parable of Matt 25 and harps on it as though that is the only way to get into Heaven and calls everyone who does not think that works and a single parable explains everything a Christian should be, a NON believer or heretical?
            Sorry for that last line about skippy. I thought I was amplifying your response and added that line because skip m is so pathetically petty and ignorant and a “science worshipper”

          • mtman2

            Riiight – like we fInite mortals could even grasp the intellignce that could create atoms and DNA.

            Yet the fools keep pushing the narrative of accidental reality= “everything from nothing” as an alternative to a clearly evident intelligent design everywhere we look…

          • David Greene

            Most people don’t want anyone telling them what to do! To accept that God is real means I need to yield to him. If he is real, then I owe him something, right? Most people deny his existance because then they don’t have to acknowledge that he is bigger, smarter, more powerful and more loving than we could ever be.

          • mtman2

            One would either not think- or intentionally pursue any or every alternative to a Creator for an escape from the overwhelming evidence thereof…

          • David Greene

            Agreed. Anything other than submission to someone who would be “over or above me.”

          • mtman2

            Yes – this is why I encourage all to read the Gospel of John to see what He relayed and personally stated in red…
            Not to be deeply moved by this on just a personal level is a disconnect to the spiritual door opened there…

        • harold

          Maybe it is because these atheist’s have the morals and mind of a monkey.LOL

        • Rich Girod
        • john

          HOW DID WE GET OBAMA,DAM APE IS SMARTER

      • Hopeful_One

        Don’t you think it’s time to return to prayer and Bible reading in public school?

        • floral

          it is time to leave the public schools…..with public funds comes government control and government regulations and government rules on what can be taught, indoctrination and falsehoods.

          • Hopeful_One

            We cannot give over our government to enemies of the Constitution. Remember, for 174 years Christian teachers in public school were free to pray with children and teach from the Bible. The New England Primer is filled with Bible knowledge. That was the book used to teach children to read and write for a long, long time. The first American Bibles were printed by the U.S. Congress.

            Many already have put their children in private Christian schools, but they are a minority. Most cannot afford it. Not only that, millions are being indoctrinated into atheistic humanism and many false beliefs. This is evil. We cannot allow this to continue without a fight for the truth of what this nation used to stand for: true religious freedom, where men, women, and children were free to practice their Christianity anywhere, including the public schools. And we were free to incorporate Christian morality into our laws.

            This evil doctrine of of “freedom from religion” has brought a new wave of persecution against Christianity that will not stop. It has brought us corrupt laws, like gay marriage and threatens to undermine every good thing in this country. It is time to take back our government from the hands of the progressive communists (Democrats and RINOs).

          • floral

            The schools were local community control, not “public” like we have today, government controlled and funded. The community or town hired teachers, built the school room and invited all children to come. They were taught for a long time from the Bible or McGuffy, not the very stupid and boring See Jane run…….excremental stuff foisted by the communist/socialist Dewey who destroyed education public in the US.
            Home schooling which many employed early in our nation’s history via tutors and/or “private” community or parent controlled and funded schools is what Christians are turning to, also “church” schools, IF you can keep the government out of it, which is difficult. a pastor in Tennessee was jailed because his church school did not get “approval” from the state or school board on the program. Funny how Catholic schools and Mormon schools/churches get a pass but Protestants get crushed.
            If our “public schools” were like what Jefferson envisioned and pushed for, it would be fine to have “free public schools”, but our public schools are taxpayer funded, government controlled and dictated propaganda indoctrination institutions.

          • Hopeful_One

            I agree. It is an extremely serious problem. My pastor makes it clear that removing prayer and Bible reading from public school was blasphemy and a great sin against God that continues to this day and this is why you see so many violent attacks at public schools in the last few decades. The door is wide open for Satan to attack our children. Since ’63, children and their parents and teachers are no longer invoking God’s blessing upon our public schools. Because the American people have not stood up and just gave in to this evil, the sin lies upon the whole nation, but especially upon the Federal Govt.

          • floral

            I am not sure we can call non believers heretical or blasphemy. The school prayer SCOTUS case was definitely a violation of the 1st amendment, (free exercise of religion) in favor of one religion, atheism.

            “To receive of the gift of God’s Spirit, a person must accept and
            believe that Jesus is God’s son and the Savior of the world, repent of sin, be willing to surrender their entire life to His will, and go under the waters of baptism (Acts 2:38). If, after all this and receiving the spirit a person with full knowledge REJECTS God and commits blasphemy (has contempt for the spirit within them), her or she then becomes one of His adversaries (like the devil). Someone who does this has no hope
            of forgiveness, as they now refuse to repent of their sins and change. “.

            26 For there is no longer any sacrifice that will take away sins if we purposely go on sinning after the truth has been made known to us (Hebrews 10:26)

            TheGod of the Bible is one of mercy, forgiveness, and love. However, if a person willfully chooses to commit blasphemy against him, HE will honor their choice. He will ultimately put them out of their misery in the lake of fire (Revelation 20:14 – 15).

            The word blasphemy is mentioned fourteen times in the King James Bible. It is used only twice in the Old Testament and twelve times in the New. Two of the main Scriptures that use the word are found in the books of Matthew and Revelation. In Matthew, Christ uses the word to warn the Pharisees who accuse him of using the power of the devil to cast out demons. In Revelation, the word is used in reference to the Beast power that will soon take control of the entire world and force
            the worship of Satan onto all people.

            31,Because of this, I say to you, every sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven to men except the blasphemy against the Holy Spirit; that shall not be forgiven to men.

            32. And whoever speaks a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him; but whoever speaks against the Holy Spirit, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this age nor in the coming age (Matthew 12:31 – 32, HBFV throughout).

        • mtman2

          It truly is what held this nation of peoples together from the start;
          via the 1st and 2nd. Great Awakening apanning from-
          1740 – 1900.

    • Krazeehors

      Everyone knows that SANTA is the one who delivers COAL to the stocking of those undeserving of presentrs. NOBODY knows what his religion is or whether or not he is an Atheist. (sarcasm)

      • Morton99

        He is obviously a socialist. He gives what people ask for.

        • floral

          You are the one who believes in fairy tales…..

          • Rex Whitmer

            But Floral, who makes fairy tales? Who’s mind created? Not you, not me. I’ve always wanted to ask an atheist that question. Most of them mumble something and walk away, others become angry and accuse me of being stupid. Nah, those self creators are the stupid ones!

          • mtman2

            A ” fairytale” is accidental life= spontaneous generation= not possible- as Hoyle the major Atheist scientist end team calculated it wasimpossible…also he who first jokingly coined the term Big Bang

          • floral

            I agree. evolutionists created the most banal and unbelievable fairy tale, at least the Greek and Roman gods are interesting and with a tiny bit of truth to point to the Creator, the Father, the Omnipresent God.

    • Morton99

      It was very shabby of Jesus to give everything away. It could have given him a real bad name …. like socialist for example !

      • fran

        Jesus didn’t instruct His followers to “give everything away.” He asked them to “leave everything” and concentrate on following Him – big difference! It was NEVER a condition to be a disciple to abandon home, family, and / or property — except for the Rich Young Ruler (see Matthew 19:16-26), who was more concerned with defending his privileged, “righteous” status than he was in pursuing holiness. Socialism DECREES that one gives away one’s salary for the “greater good” — and leaves it to the GOVERNMENT (not the Church) to determine what that means. Jesus instructed the Rich Young Ruler to SELL everything he had and to give it to the poor — in other words, the Ruler himself was to determine the recipients, and no one else (note that Jesus did NOT instruct the Ruler to “give it to Me”). It is a grave sin to be facile and flippant with the truth of Scripture, and that seems to be a constant theme in this day and age. Sad!

        • Skip Moreland

          No, christ told the ruler to give all he had to the poor. Not to christ.To sell all his possessions and give the money away in order to enter the kingdom of heaven.

          • floral

            He only told that rich young man that, because that person loved his money more than God. Only by losing his life, which was money, could he give himself to God and be free. He was chained by his money and status a slave to it. Anything one is a slave to needs to be “given away”, whether it is alcoholism, drugs, money, cars, fornication, pornography, faith in “science” alone, power etc.

      • Shecky

        Socialists don’t give everything away. They take from the hard working and self reliant and give to those that don’t and aren’t. Big difference.

      • Rex Whitmer

        No, while he freely gives, you must also be willing to give to others and to love the Savior and his Father. Of course he has free will to interpret the situation, as creator.

      • mtman2

        No – Jesus showed to be about personally being generous.
        Not some bureaucrat stealing your money to do as “they” see fit.
        It’s your earned gainful wealth you decide where and who you help.
        American government esp has few and clearly defined responsibilties; not the panacea of the monstrousity today.
        No rulers or royalty nor tyrants to be allowed…

    • IMSweetOlBob

      As “Hoss” would ask; “How about filthy muslims, Paw” ? “Kin I shoot ’em” ? “Kin I shoot ’em, Paw” ?

      • floral

        Ridiculous. islam is not compatible with western civilization and/or law. It is a government dictatorship/theocracy. No element that undermines the Constitution and US law can be tolerated. Sharia law cannot be allowed in the US, nor can any aspect of islam that calls for the islamic caliphate and Sharia law be acceptable. The 1st amendment does NOT call for islam to supplant any belief under free exercise of religion( of worship) or allow them to supplant our government. Islam is NOT primarily a religion, it is a governmental/political/dictatorship/theocracy with a gloss of “religion” There is NO equality, no individualism, no justice, no liberty.

        • Rex Whitmer

          Yes, but we now have colonies of that belief scattered all though our nation. Where as our nation allows freedom of worship, theirs does not! Seems there’s a problem there. We have to suppose that if they cannot allow others to believe as they wish, then either they must amend their belief, or promise not to attempt to force us to theirs, or to just go somewhere else where they would be welcome. Unfortunately no nation worth living in would be willing to allow the privilege, So should we not surveil them?

          • floral

            Probably and we should NOT give them welfare money to the closed and unaccountable mosques or the orgs that front them…Send all so called muslim refugees back to their countries of origin.

          • Rex Whitmer

            I would agree, but we have a whole lot of Liberals whom would be calling us all kinds of names, and demand we let them stay. Hopefully when they begin to make their move to take things over, they will be the first, and the rest of us can take care of the action.

          • floral

            They call us names anyway. Better to be hung for a sheep as a goat.

          • mtman2

            Here is the deal- to become a U.S. citizen you must swear an oath to OUR Constitution or if violated citizenship will be revoked.
            Sharia Law IA a violation as it supercedes Ametican valyese as Founded+Framed= expell them then as 80% claim allegiance to Sharia= illegal here as a citizen under citizenship rules sworn to.

          • floral

            It is highly unlikely that a muslim refugee will be sincere in any oath to uphold the Constitution and defend it with his/her life. One of the tenets of islam is the command to lie to unbelievers in islam to further allah. Besides, bo broadened the conscientious objector exception to allow muslims to alter the oath to not defend the US.

      • dpg01

        A simple bounty with a low cost entry fee and no bag limit. Problem solved.

        • Shecky

          I’m in….sounds like a great idea.

          • dpg01

            Welcome to the club. Millions strong and growing.

          • Robert Ingram

            Me, my AK47 will bag our limit before noon each day.

          • dpg01

            Good luck and happy hunting!

      • Rex Whitmer

        You can’t shoot ’em, but you could ask them how the moon god created earth and everyone on earth. Get ready to run though, because they have no answer, and they don’t like to be asked questions like that! And they want to kill anyone whom see the illogicalness of their belief.

      • DaveyJ

        Do not write your foolish interpretation of Hoss Cartwright (Dan Broker) comments on this topic! He was highly intelligent! You are NOT!

    • Morton99

      wrong. The first amendment to the US Constitution states “Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof” The two parts, known as the “establishment clause” and the “free exercise clause” respectively, form the textual basis for the Supreme Court’s interpretations

      • floral

        You are wrong. SCOTUS used the letter from Jefferson to the Danbury Baptists as though it was Constitutional, which it was not and did not even quote it accurately. Jefferson said, (about the Connecticut law making a single denomination a state religion thus persecuting the Baptists) there should be a Wall of separation between Church and State, and that he looked forward to the time that the States adhered to the prohibition of the 1st amendment.

        • Morton99

          The Supreme Court of the United States has the exclusive right and duty to interpret the Constitution. That is the LAW. It can be re-interpreted ONLY by another Supreme Court in the future.
          If you refuse to accept that then you do not follow the Constitution and should probably renounce your citizenship.

          • Rex Whitmer

            While they can interpret the law, they are not authorized to make the law. Roe V Wade is a fine example or making a law, and it needs to be done away with. We have, during our previous presidency, had several courts, both federal and state whom blind themselves to this practice!

          • floral

            SCOTUS did NOT “interpret” the Constitution. They ignored it and substituted a non Constitutional letter as THOUGH it was authoritative. You should shut up and actually “follow the Constitution”. Just because an atheist was offended by school prayer, does not make what SCOTUS did so unconstitutionally, right or constitutional.

          • Morton99

            I don’t think that you understand. If the SCOTUS said black was white – that would be the law. You have recourse – not to argue that they ‘did not follow the Constitution’ – they did. The Constitution is quite clear about the power of that court. But if a simple majority of the House impeaches a supreme court justice, followed by a trial in the Senate where 2/3 vote to remove him – you can roll back decisions you don’t like – assuming the current president gets that Senate to confirm a new justice of his choice – and who makes a pre-judgment based upon the concurrence of a political agreement between himself and the President.

          • floral

            SCOTUS Can NOT by the powers given it, make LAW. That is the exclusive power of Congress. SCOTUS ONLY can rule on the constitutionality of a duly passed law, IF a case against it is brought in lower courts and appealed to SCOTUS, AFTER going through the entire court system first and IF the SCOTUS agrees to hear. Their rulings are NOT law, even when the bad courts (when FDR passed the new deal and extorted the SCOTUS into ruling it constitutional) or even the Roberts court when he ruled on King illegally, because his decision was not before the court as an argument in law. Note the Dred Scott decision, which was not even a pretense at “following the Constitution” . All Congress has to do, which they did in at least one case, is pass another law and tell SCOTUS to pound sand. Then the process has to start all over. Even justice Kennedy opposed RvW and the SCOTUS in their ruling opinion said that when the Congress passed a life at conception act, RvW was null and void.
            You ASSume much.
            The Courts have not often “followed” the Constitution-they “interpreted” it with NO basis or authority. Scalia pointed that out in every opinion he wrote.

          • Morton99

            But, Floral – they DON’T make law. They are the supreme judge of that – not you, not Congress – and not the President. But you can try and impeach them for that reason.

          • floral

            You said their rulings were LAW-they are not. And I cannot impeach them-only Congress can and it will never happen. The only way is to ignore their rulings, which states have a right to do AND/OR Congress passes a new law which voids the ruling, which even Justice Kennedy said would void RvW.

          • floral

            I KNOW you have not a clue what the Constitution says about the SCOTUS power and how SCOTUS courts have violated the Constitution.

          • Morton99

            Let me rephrase – ‘what (you think) that the Constitution says about the SCOTUS power and how SCOTUS courts have violated the Constitution.
            That is the problem – you are neither qualified nor have standing to decide that. In fact only the SCOTUS has that standing.

          • floral

            SCOTUS does NOT get to decide that they have power in excess of that which the Constitution grants. They do NOT have any standing other than what the Constitution grants. They do NOT have original jurisdiction in cases such as gay marriage, King…they can only accept or deny review of lower court appeals.
            I am far more qualified than a self described wall st stockbroker – I do have yrs of background and degrees in law and won a 1st amendment case.

          • Morton99

            I am done with helping you understand the Constitution. This is some sort of game with you to insist on being right when you are truly clueless..

          • floral

            The game is yours. While you pretend that you are widely read and therefore authority, almost no one agrees with you, maybe one upvote

          • floral

            When did you get qualified to help ANYONE understand the Constitution, gameplayer? When was the last time you read the Constitution, or the Federalist papers or any of the SCOTUS opinions and how many and which ones?Those of us who study all of them, don’t accept your specious comments as qualitative.
            I am hopeful you are truly “done” with your nonsense.

          • Morton99

            Oh – quite sometime before I took the bar examinations.

          • floral

            You said you retired wealthy-not that you claim to be now a lawyer. Wait- you took the bar exam (maybe) but no indication you Passed, nor do many “lawyers” have any understanding of Con Law. I managed to beat a Harvard Con Lawyer in pro se on a 1st Amendment case. Not hard to do…..

          • Morton99

            Yes, all of that is true. I was very successful for which I am truly grateful that I had a superb education. And now I try to give back at least a little of what I learned.

          • floral

            By being a poor example? Do you practice law poorly as your comments indicate or just employ ad hominems and pass out insults to Christians?

          • mtman2

            Totally false on its face= scotus does not make law, rule nor legislate from the bench; only “Opinions”.
            Yes the latter part of your post is correct but not in entirety- see Alexander Hamilton in FEDERALIST 78+79 – no activist judges can be tolerated.

          • mtman2

            Mmmmm well- as James Madison stated(he wrote the Constitution);
            If it is in violation of intent it is not legally binding and congress must deal with it’s”NO LAW AT ALL” from any body in violation.

            The House should impeach justices for poor actions even personally(1/2 would be gone).
            They DO NOT WRITE law they only have an “opinion” = not law.
            Further in fact the House(the lawmaking branch) can legally impeach any justice just on bad personal behaviour(this goes only for justices).

            The fact is that haven’t been correct for decades by legislating fromthe bench and Jefferson warned of incremental judiciary creep into a illegal “law making body as if they were royalty” = well they ain’t – they are servants of the People and the Constitution to protect the Peoples Liberty as set forth by the Framers…

          • Morton99

            Well you stated their powers fairly well. But impeachment is a very high bar to raise and I seriously doubt that that there are more than single digits of Congressmen or Senators willing to allege that.

          • floral

            So your claim that the only recourse is impeachment is wrong as is your insult about my qualifications and your claim that SCOTUS CAN equal law. Mtman2 stated what I said, just not in the same detail but added the Federalist papers as support. Congress CAN pass laws that overturn any semblance of law contained in an OPINION by SCOTUS.

          • Morton99

            Congress can indeed pass laws to correct any law that receives judicial review that is NOT based upon the Constitution. They are explicitly prohibited from that except by following the procedures outlined in the Constitution, or their laws will be nullified by the SCOTUS.

          • floral

            SCOTUS cannot nullify any law until or unless it goes through lower courts first and reaches SCOTUS on appeal and THEN, SCOTUS can refuse to certify (review) the case.

        • mtman2

          Yes and it was justice Hugo Black that pulled that lie out of his hat in 1947 after 160yrs of clear understanding.
          Certainly a Commie intrusion into true Americanism…

          • floral

            Black was not all bad, but his legal interpretations and opinions were erratic. I don’t think communism had anything to do with it, just he was flat out wrong and maybe an atheist.

    • Robert Ingram

      Are you sure we can hang an atheist just for fun?

    • Hopeful_One

      But not against the law to kill innocent babies in the womb. The nation is out of whack. These people are not stupid, just evil.

  • Morton99

    American Christianity ? Well there are pockets of it – mainly in the North where Episcopals and Catholics still teach the New Testament. But the bulk of ‘protestant’ America – particularly the bloodthirsty evangelicals seem to have redacted everything in the bible beyond Leviticus. What happened to caring for the poor, the sick, the young and the elderly ? Where is affordable healthcare, who takes in the needy (there are more than 100,000 veterans that are homeless)

    • William McClure

      Of course You think they ought to be aborted.

      • Morton99

        Huh ? Are you suggesting that sermons are delivered by fetuses ?

    • TontonB

      So, you beg to the question. If you’re so concerned about ‘the poor, the sick, the young and the elderly’, what are doing for them? ‘Bloodthirsty evangelicals’? Come on Morty, you’re being a bit of a drama queen aren’t you?

      • Morton99

        Do you really want to know – if I told you – you would call me a liar – but suffice it to say what you cannot deny is that I am calling attention to it as well.

        • TontonB

          Yeah I know about you! Why would I consider you a liar? If what you say or write is the truth, then what do you care about what I think? Pres. Trump is 100% true to his convictions. You could use him as an example if you really believe in yourself. I don’t deny anything to which someone calls attention. It’s not the attention, but the accuracy of the attention that’s in question.

          • PION🇺🇸🇺🇸R

            And, tonto, Trump, & co., “What happened to caring for the poor, the sick, the young and the elderly ? Where is affordable healthcare, who takes in the needy (there are more than 100,000 veterans that are homeless)”

            Oh, if we give tax cuts to the corporations and the 1% to buy back stock, yachts, third homes, etc. they will prosper and perhaps a dribble might trickle to them.

          • TontonB

            It’s a cliché and a trite saying now, but here goes. When was the last time you were given a job by a poor person? What do you do, or have done, to improve yourself instead of bitching about the same old tired line – ‘… tax cuts to the corporations…’ If your goal in life is to complain and feel sorry for yourself because you perceive yourself to be a victim of a ‘heartless society’, then you’ll be exactly what you are now your entire life. A loser, albeit much older. In a capitalist society you can be whatever you want. The key is to have a vision and work towards it. It’s that simple! Or you can choose to be on the outside and be angry and mean. At least in a free society you have choices. Your type has no idea what freedoms you take for granted in the US. Why? Because you have nothing to compare it to. Live in a so-called free society in Europe. The freedoms you enjoy here are not found any where else on this planet.

          • PION🇺🇸🇺🇸R

            What happened to the Christ in Christian?

          • TontonB

            Which Christ? Who’s your Christ? What’s your god? God or god? Are you a chronic complainer?

          • PION🇺🇸🇺🇸R

            Jesus the Christ of the New Testament.

          • floral

            The Messiah of the Old Testament as well. Do you really KNOW HIM? You do not believe in HIM, you deny and twist HIS Word.

          • PION🇺🇸🇺🇸R

            I gave his words verbatim. How is that twisting? Methinks you avoid acting in accord with His commands.

          • floral

            Methinks YOU don’t understand the Words of Christ. If your study the Bible (employ hermeneutics) you would find you are completely wrong in your “interpretation” Which version of the Bible are you quoting? The New Testament was written in Greek and Aramaic, translated into Latin and then King James English. You did NOT quote HIS WORDS “verbatim”.
            You don’t get to judge a Christians relationship with Christ. We are all called to different vocations as Christians. I study the Words in context and with prayer, not the legalistic false interpretations of others who have little to no knowledge and do NOT believe in any, just want to use cherrypicked verses to assault Christians.

          • PION🇺🇸🇺🇸R

            Herm ur own neutics. I quoted verbatim from perfect Jesus without interpretation by imperfect humans. Go your imperfect way and deny the teachings of the Lord. I’ll go mine.

          • floral

            Which version of the Bible did you use? 1611 KJ? New World Amer revised? You have ANY training in meaning or translation or how language has changed in the last 2000 yrs? Do you read Greek, Aramaic, Latin, Hebrew? I do NOT deny ANY teachings of the Lord Jesus Christ, just your limited understanding and inability to be rational, logical and/or tolerant

          • PION🇺🇸🇺🇸R

            😴 Have it your way.

          • floral

            Answer the question.

          • PION🇺🇸🇺🇸R

            All roads lead to Rome.

          • floral

            Not responsive and your rendering of Matthew 25 was out of context. You ignored the first and second parables in the Chapter. The 5 wise virgins and the 5 foolish and the parable of the talents. Where is the Command in those? the 3rd which you insist is commandment is merely the Parable of the Sheep and Goats and refers ONLY to being ready for the 2nd Coming of Christ.
            Rome is NOT the goal of Christianity. You are flippant, lack understanding and fail to understand you are NOT the judge of each and every soul who answers ONLY to God, not to your silly misinterpretations.

          • PION🇺🇸🇺🇸R

            It’s your Free will that allows you to deny the commands; and your choice of the consequences foreseen in the parable. Mine too.

          • floral

            MumpsimusThere ARE NO COMMANDS in Matthew 25. The parables are warnings. What is according to Christ the Greatest commandment? To love the Lord Thy God with all thy heart and mind and soul…. In the 10, there is no command to feed the poor…..
            Do you adhere to Jesus’ command to the disciples to arm themselves with swords? Why not if you think a parable is a command?

          • niknar

            “Rational”, “Logical” & “Tolerant” are some of the last words I would attribute to you, but I certainly would attribute them to Pioneer. Everything to you seems to be the exact opposite of reality.

          • floral

            That just shows your inability to understand the meaning of Rational, Logical and Tolerant. You ASSUME you are a good judge. I find you less than logical rational and not at all tolerant or accurate.

          • niknar

            Yes, everything you say must be true & logical & rational because you say it is.

          • niknar

            It’s amazing how many criticisms you attribute to other people actually apply perfectly to yourself!

          • floral

            that is your non factual opinion.They certainly do apply to you and pio……

          • floral

            In your uninformed nonfactual ad hominem opinion

          • floral

            Only the rich pay taxes. The top 2%, which has an average income of 175k, according to the IRS figures, pays over 35% of all income taxes. Over 1/2 of those who file returns pay NO income taxes and in fact, get PAID thousands in EIC and child care credits. The top income in the bottom 50% that pay no taxes is 60k.
            Homelessness has nothing to do with healthcare. Vets get VA and Tricare, free, but because it is government run, it is ineffective, admin heavy and vets get very poor care as do those on Medicare.

          • PION🇺🇸🇺🇸R

            Oh yeah? 👎🏼

          • floral

            YEAH! according to the IRS figures and yearly report.

          • niknar

            I am far from rich & I play plenty of taxes. And your figures are all wrong. The Top 2% have an even higher percentage of wealth than what they pay taxes, which means we have a regressive tax system (made even more regressive with the wealthcare plan just passed by Republicans), which is very destabilizing for a nation

          • floral

            I was relaying what the IRS reported in 2010.
            Perhaps you don’t remember that when FDR INCREASED taxes and spending after 1935, the country went into a recession and unemployment went up to 19% from 14^ Every time taxes increase, unemployment increases and growth slows. When taxes are lowered, employment increases and growth rates increase.
            According to many reports from independent economic advisors/commentators, 150-300k income per year is “middle class” and those will save 5-10% in taxes. Most of the families of 4 who earn 60k or less, pay NO taxes and in fact get paid thru EIC and childcare credits. The IRS reports under bo made it clear that the bottom 50% pay no taxes and the most taxes are paid by the top 2%. The top 1% has adjusted gross income of 1mill or more and there are only about 320k of them.
            When the income tax amendment was passed there were about a 100 or maybe a 1000 millionaires. (income being NOT wages but the profit made on the sale of goods and svc) The rate on millionaires was 90%. The next yr after the 1st yr of 90% tax rate, there was ONE millionaire. The rest were wiped out. Now THAT is regressive.

          • Morton99

            What evidence do you have that Trump is true to his convictions or even election promises. There is a mass of evidence that he is a serial liar. Where is the wall. Where is the affordable healthcare. Where is the money for the opioid crisis. Why are more jobs leaving the USA than ever before ?

          • floral

            No so much a liar as bo is and was……btw, bo did nothing about the opioid crisis, in fact made it worse with bocare, which RAISED the cost, almost triple of medical insurance and cut by more than 1/2 the services.

          • Morton99

            Ah – so now you indulge in ‘whataboutism’. Pathetic.

          • floral

            You indict yourself, pathetic one. rumple only has failed to get Congress to act on the wall. That is NOT a lie, but bo, who you defend, IS a serial liar and incompetent and undermined the Constitution.

          • Morton99

            Just how long will you dredge Obama and Hillary Clinton for demonization ? Don’t you have anything that is current and relevant to talk about ?

          • floral

            Just how long will you trot out your tired cliches and inaccurate accounts of how wonderful bocare is?

          • TontonB

            Are you now admitting that ObamaCare is not affordable? Didn’t Obama promise a family of four would, on average, realize a $2500/year reduction in health care costs? What about the recent tax overhaul GOP planned passed by the Congress and signed by Pres. Trump? Is that a lie too? What about the unemployment rate at an all-time low? Is that your example of jobs leaving the US? Since when is it the governments responsibility to provide any healthcare? Are you Socialists so inept that you can’t take care of your basic needs? Why is illegal immigration at an all-time low? And the wall hasn’t even been built yet. It’s because immigration laws are being enforced, and the wetbacks know it. What happened to Obama’s ‘catch and release.’? Try again Junior.

          • Morton99

            No, I am not.

          • floral

            Hoist by your own petard

          • niknar

            To determine whether Trump is true to his convictions, you have to ascertain what convictions he truly has, & I see no evidence that he has any at all.

        • floral

          As a dog turns to his vomit so the fool to his folly

    • Krazeehors

      That is absolutely NOT true. All you have to do is to look at the “Mission Statement” of EVERY SINGLE Non-Denominational Protestant Church and, every single one of them will read that their goal is to teach the lessons of Jesus Christ, which happened LONG AFTER the Book of Leviticus was even WRITTEN.

      • Morton99

        Yes – they pay lip service to His teachings.

        • floral

          your uninformed lying, inaccurate opinion.
          You don’t believe in HIM. The real teaching the foundational teaching is he who believes in ME, shall have everlasting life.
          Perhaps you missed “the poor you will have with you always, COME FOLLOW ME! (to spread the Word of salvation in context)

          • Morton99

            You my dear, are a devil worshipper. You are obviously from the Trump base ?

          • floral

            You are a hypocritical, uninformed, illogical, irrational fool. I worship the Christ. Who is the devil, YOU? I don’t worship you. Who are you to tell anyone who they worship? Who are you to judge anyone? You ASSume.

          • Morton99

            You’re surely not suggesting that you are better informed than am I ? I might give you a passing mark in name-calling but that’s about it.

          • floral

            It is obvious that I am more logical and far more informed than you. You have yet to make a logical, factual, or rational comment. You don’t get to judge me. Almost nobody accepts anything you say as truth or with value.

          • Morton99

            Well if you support Trump – you can have no pride in yourself. The man is obsequiously vulgar, a pathological liar and has done incredible harm to our democracy and to our culture. Just look at how confrontationally divisive you are toward me !

          • floral

            If you support bo and or atheism YOU can have NO pride, nor can you be proud of the illogical, irrational comments you make. You are looking in the mirror. You are confrontational, divisive to everyone and no one believes you.
            The US is NOT a democracy, it was designed to be a Republic and WW, FDR, Clinton and BO have made it into an unconstitutional bureaucracy.
            Whatever your opinion of rumple, he at least attempts to lead the country to return to its roots and has undone insofar as he could in leading and suggesting, bocare, and 1 of the worst treaties and stands firm on spending on the UN. bo was the real danger to “culture” because he ignited racial division…..among many vile undermining actions.

          • Morton99

            You are so wrong. I am probably the most widely read poster on this blog – mainly because I speak truth to propaganda. Yes I get a mass of angry responses but shame works like that. You have to know that Trump is a disaster and shame on you for supporting him for vindictive reasons. You will do NOTHING to put things right the way you would like. You have been lapping up the lies because you hear what you want to hear – but in a quiet moment for your own sake just look and see what Trump has really gotten you except a massive amount of hatred from his opposition. I know I am correct because you will see that his support is eroding every week. Don’t bother to tell me I am lying because I know I am not – and I really don’t care what you think. Fortunately most of Trump’s damage has been with easily reversible executive orders. The tax act can also be remedied by simply raising personal income taxes for those that can afford to pay more. Oh, and the greatest humiliation to you and thrill for sane people (most Americans) will almost certainly be public healthcare as a result of millions losing any kind of affordable coverage. They will vote for it – and in an electorate where there is only a difference of 3 million votes between who wins and loses – 30 million (uninsured) will cause a landslide.

          • floral

            You ASSume much and give yourself way too much credit. You ARE a propagandist and your OPINIONS are not based on fact.
            bocare is NOT affordable and I will not pay for what I don’t want and cannot use. Those on bocare had insurance, much more affordable than bocare, before the gov mandates.

          • Morton99

            Well – that’s split milk now. Insurance premiums are expected to rise at least 20 percent. I hope for your sake that you lead a long and healthy life – because if you are under insured you may well have a sad and premature death should your health needs change.

          • floral

            under bocare, ins premiums quadrupled. I have NO insurance, by choice 1. because it is NOT insurance and 2. no medical care has helped me but it has hurt me. The ONLY reason I might need medical care is for an accident.
            I am and will remain as healthy as organic food, exercise and avoidance of accidents, doctors, drugs and toxins can maintain me. Insurance and medical treatment kill more people than NOT having insurance and NOt going to doctors for drugs and unnecessary procedures do. More than 350k deaths occur from legal prescribed drugs taken as prescribed each year. Almost an equal number die in hospitals and from misdiagnoses and doctor’s mistakes each year. My parents are among them and I was almost included in those stats, because of a doctor’s misdiagnosis and unnecessary and dangerous prescriptions. I’ll take my chances as will many of my neighbors and friends, all of whom lost affordable insurance when bocare supplanted their plans at twice the cost and 1/2 the “services” and “coverage”.

          • Morton99

            I LOVE your optimism about your continuing good health. Obamacare was not expensive – the drug companies and the insurance companies were, and are – however. That is what distinguishes our healthcare from that of other nations.

          • floral

            Tell those lies to all of us who saw their premiums quadruple and their “coverage” cut in 1/2 when they were forced onto bocare.
            We do NOT have “healthcare” we have drug and sickcare. I don’t want or need any drugs and will not take or pay for them.
            You refuse to acknowledge what others actually say. I have NO optimism about my continued health. I simply do everything I can to avoid toxins (drugs) and doctors and eat right and exercise. I KNOW allopathic medicine killed my parents and made their last years very bad from all the drugs.

          • Morton99

            Good luck. You refuse to look at the facts. You and your peers WILL need all the luck they can muster because Mr Trump is certainly not going to do anything to make healthcare affordable.

          • floral

            I have EXPERIENCED the FACTS. Your factless OPINIONS are not authoritative. It is not Congress job to make MEDICAL care affordable. It is NOT a right. “insurance” created the costs so doctors could make more money and drive mercedes instead of buicks. There are doctors who provide services like a CSA . Unlimited visits monthly for a flat monthly fee under $100 for a family of 4. THAT is affordable if you believe that a doctor is what you need. I learned that for ME a doctor is NOT the way to go.

          • Morton99

            I actually agree with you – but only if you enter into an agreement to never seek Medicaid services if by some misfortune you find yourself in dire need of medical care that you cannot afford.

          • floral

            I am not eligible for Medicaid and it is NOT your right or authority to demand “an agreement”.

          • Morton99

            It is my problem if you and others demand medical help while refusing to pay for it. I would feel so much better if you agreed to accept the folly of your irresponsibility – in which case I would commend you and maybe even say a prayer if by mischance you had a premature death due to an untreated illness.

          • floral

            It still is not your Right nor would it be legal to make someone who objects to being told they have to pay for medical care they don’t want and can’t afford, “agree” to a contract with YOU. It would be irresponsible for me to go to doctors and take their drugs and misdiagnoses. I have problems CAUSED by medicine and drugs. I am not allowed due to bo care and medicare rules to avail myself of “treatments” and doctors of my choice at prices I can afford. It is hardly folly to avoid drugs.
            Your praise and prayers I can do without-you have NOTHING to offer ME. I would NEVER demand or accept medical help, and I will NOT be forced to pay for something I do not want and cannot use.

          • Morton99

            It is my right under the First Amendment to suggest it – as I have done – and to suggest we have a law preventing you and others from gaming the system if you DO contract some awful disease and throw yourself on the some tax payer program. That’s only fair. That way you will NOT have to pay any tax at all relating to healthcare.

          • floral

            You are no lawyer if you think that. Your OPINION however ridiculous is your “right”. It would not be LEGAL to try to get someone to sign an agreement not to avail oneself of any government program out there.
            Now, if I were eligible for Medicaid, I would not have enough money to buy any prepaid medical plan under bocare. I am not eligible so cannot commit any fraud. There is a legal term for what you are proposing (and no it is not fair) that you should know, and why it is NOT legal and cannot be enforced. Even with the very poor coverage on bocare, an “awful” disease or major accident, would NOT be covered.

          • floral

            Fair? I will still have to pay taxes so that others, esp illegals and gameplaying trust fund babies can get medicaid. You DO know that all fed funds derive from taxes and the most from taxpayers?
            There are laws (ie eligibility requirements) for medicaid and welfare and medicaid AND Taxpayers PAY for it. You are no legal expert in anything.

          • floral

            Widely read? You measure that by what? the many upvotes you DON’T get?
            Or perhaps you just ignore that almost no one, if any, responds to you with Yes you are SO RIGHT ON?

          • floral

            That is your uninformed opinion.

    • PION🇺🇸🇺🇸R

      Amen Brother!

    • floral

      NOBODY is guaranteed MEDICAL care much less “affordable” and it is NOT the job of government or Congress to force anyone to pay and worship at the altar of “medicine”. “healthcare” which allopathic medicine is clearly not, has nothing to do with “homeless vets”.
      You are so full of excrement you have chronic *****.
      You have NO clue about what evangelicals believe. Mostly it is atheists/lib/dem/progs that try to brand Christians with leviticus. And you clearly have not a clue what being a Christian is all about.
      The earliest hospitals were charitable orgs founded and run by Christians (even Catholics!) Ditto for orphanages and “poor” houses. Christians took care of the poor, the elderly the widows and orphans. Then the government got involved and took over social programs (the New Deal) and dictated what and how and why. Everything became for profit .

      • Morton99

        Should you also refuse to die for the goals and aspirations of a politically led military ?

        • floral

          complex question fallacy and false premise and irrelevant.

          • Morton99

            Oh, I see. An inconvenient question for which you are stumped for an answer. So you duck. Coward.

          • floral

            You duck on everything “are you drinking?” It is a fallacious question and not valid or answerable and totally irrelevant. I am not stumped for an answer-I gave you the answer your stupid gotcha question deserved.

        • floral

          bo broadened the conscientious objector status to include muslim immigrants to NOT have to swear to support and defend the Constitution. So, everybody CAN refuse to go to war or serve in the military. I don’t make that choice…….

          • Morton99

            I guess you caught the Trump disease – lying through a hole in your head.

          • floral

            What an intelligent answer (not). You still have the lefty/bo disease. Lying thru all of your orifices ……

  • Sgt. York

    Atheists are nothing more that mini Communists or as the Liberals like to say in their cheap Whitney way,Socialism. So do not think if they werent stronger in numbers that they wouldn’t try taking America over.

    • Morton99

      Was Jesus a communist or a mere socialist ?

      • Rachel Brock

        Jesus was the Son of God and welcomed all.

        • PION🇺🇸🇺🇸R

          And would tax the rich to provide life, liberty, and happiness to the downtrodden.

          • Rachel Brock

            According to scripture Jesus did not ivolve Himself with politics. Remember He said render unto Caesar what is Caesar’s and unto God what is God’s.

          • PION🇺🇸🇺🇸R

            According to scripture, Jesus’ adult life was a constant challenge to the authorities and an example to them of how to live faithfully … now that is 100 percent political.

          • floral

            In your uninformed opinion. HE was attacked politically by the Pharisees on political grounds, not spiritual ones, which Jesus’s teachings were. That part you got right, but Jesus was not political, the Pharisee’s were-they wanted to be the ONLY authority. They were what is known as legalists-jurisprudes. “Oh, ye generation of vipers

          • Estell Newton

            Read you Bible. Jesus helped everyone. He was here to save everyone. Problem is, people like you didn’t listen and still don’t.

          • Rex Whitmer

            Some people read the Bible, but don’t read it as it is. The existent priests had the world set out on THEIR interpretation of the scriptures. The problem was that many of them interpreted them to their own wishful thinking. They forgot that THEY were not the final authority. Others had become used to living their way and were unwilling to change their ways to his ways!

          • Estell Newton

            You’re right. The Pope has recently declared that HE wants to change the wording of the Lords Prayer. He does not have the authority to do that. Others pick a verse and don’t read the verses around it to get the real meaning. Some even say that you don’t need to read the Old Testament just the New Testament. People like that need to read the book of Isaiah and then go to Revelation. It’s amazing how much is in BOTH books. The Bible will interpret itself IF you take the time to read it.

          • Rex Whitmer

            Both books are about GOD dealing with mankind, therefore we should look for knowledge of him in both!

          • mtman2

            Yes- also prophesies by the boatload that show proof of divine inspiration far beyond any mathematical compytation as well as scientific facts mellenially ahead of discovery in many areas of incredible depth of insight not humanly possible.
            Yes enough to prove a “book” by its prophetic truth clearly now seen thousand of yrs ahead looking at information divinely given

          • Estell Newton

            That’s right. If you compare the two books you’ll be able to understand what the Bible is really saying.

          • mtman2

            Yes- it is the Word- and He is the Word made flesh.
            The Scriptures are astounding and new revelations can come in sections, verses and chapters you’ve read many times before.

            “More powerful than a two edged sword(doubie barrel) dividing asunder the soul from the spirit”

          • Anne Latella

            Christmas is a national holiday which everyone takes advantage of . Religion or no religion,.They still manage to take the Holiday off and celebrate.

          • Rex Whitmer

            The authorities thought that he would take over. The people expected him to. He did not! His kingdom was not of this world! Wise people walk his way and find his kingdom, and are eternally happy that they did so!

          • floral

            No proof of that. The poor you will have with you always, COME follow ME.

          • PION🇺🇸🇺🇸R

            …COME follow me and you will do as I say for the …

          • floral

            No HE did not say “you will do as I say”. There was no command to feed the poor, care for widows and orphans and ill was part of the judeo ethic.

          • PION🇺🇸🇺🇸R

            Jesus often referred to his charges as “sheep.” In John 21 he commands Simon Peter, and thus all of his adherents. John: 21:15When they had finished eating, Jesus asked Simon Peter, “Simon son of John, do you love Me more than these?” “Yes, Lord,” He answered, “You know I love You.” Jesus replied, “Feed My lambs.” 16Jesus asked a second time, “Simon son of John, do you love Me?” “Yes, Lord, he answered, “You know I love You.” Jesus told him, “Shepherd My sheep.” 17Jesus asked a third time, “Simon son of John, do you love Me?” Peter was deeply hurt that Jesus had asked him a third time, “Do you love Me?” “Lord, You know all things;” he replied, “You know I love You. Jesus said to him, “Feed my sheep.” In John’s uninformed opinion, that sounds like a command to me.

          • floral

            It is not a command to feed the poor. The reference to lambs means the Church, the Body of Believers in Christ. Christ was and is the sacrificial Lamb of God AND the Shepard of the flock. Lambs were the premier sacrifice under Judaic Law.
            “Feed MY sheep” refers to teaching them the Word of God, the New Revealation. A shephard protects and guides and leads his flock. That is the analogy employed to explain what the Christ meant. The “command” is not to feed the poor in general, but to lead all to salvation given by the Grace of God through the sacrifice of the Savior, the Christ.
            You ARE uninformed and know not of what you cherry pick.

          • jimshaw54

            When Jesus said “Feed my sheep” you have to look at John 21verse 15 where it says: “After brealfast Jesus said to Simom Peter, “Feed MY lambs. I added emphasis on the word MY because it emphasises that Jesus meant give MY lambs spiritual food (feed those who belong to me could be another translation of that verse). He later says, “…..take care of my sheep”. Never does he imply that he means for them to take care of the everyday needs of everyone, but that his instruction is to take care of their spiritual needs. Some versions say that Jesus said “feed my sheep”. .

            Along the line way too many people began to think of these verses as meaning physicallly feeding everyone, and also taking care of their physical needs. Jesus was well aware that when people are givin everything they need and want ,for free, they then become parasites rather than healthy human beings, both mentally and often physically.

          • fran

            As I replied to Morton99 in an earlier thread, Jesus didn’t instruct His followers to “give everything away.” He asked
            them to “leave everything” and concentrate on following Him – big
            difference! It was NEVER a condition to be a disciple to abandon home,
            family, and / or property — except for the Rich Young Ruler (see
            Matthew 19:16-26), who was more concerned with defending his privileged,
            “righteous” status than he was in pursuing holiness. Socialism DECREES
            that one gives away one’s salary for the “greater good” — and leaves it
            to the GOVERNMENT (not the Church) to determine what that means. Jesus
            instructed the Rich Young Ruler to SELL everything he had and to give it
            to the poor — in other words, the Ruler HIMSELF was to determine the
            recipients, and no one else (note that Jesus did NOT instruct the Ruler
            to “give it to Me”). It is a grave sin to be facile and flippant with
            the truth of Scripture, and that seems to be a constant theme in this
            day and age. Sad!

          • PION🇺🇸🇺🇸R

            See again Matthew 25 — He commands us to care for people in need. If we oppose programs that do this, we oppose His will for us. It is that simple and straightforward. Stop resisting a His will and you may earn His reward.

          • William McClure

            He says for US to care for the needy NOT support stupid government programs

          • PION🇺🇸🇺🇸R

            When we choose to oppose programs for the homeless, those who hunger, etc., we are choosing not to help them. Tough ain’t it?

          • floral

            You are illogical and irrational. It is NOT the government’s job nor is it constitutional. I will help those (and I do) I feel the Lord wants me to. I will resist being forced to participate in ill conceived social programs that are wasteful and proven to be ineffective (welfare)

          • PION🇺🇸🇺🇸R

            So you say! 🤭

          • floral

            So says the Constitution.

          • William McClure

            Nope, our churches have their OWN missions to the poor. YOU haven’t been attending many church business meetings, haven’t you? Besides, isn’t government forcing a state religion on us by bullying us to help the poor? Show me where Jesus threatened the Roman government with a fire and brimstone attack if it refused to tax more out of its wealthier citizens to help the poor.

          • PION🇺🇸🇺🇸R

            I work through the Food Bank our church sponsors and manages for all denominations in our community. I also volunteer at the regional soup kitchen which feeds abt 250 people daily. It’s something we need to do while knowing it is but a drop in the bucket of the population in need. Civil programs need to step in where sacred programs are insufficient.

            There are many passages in the Bible that recognize the need for civil government to have programs in addition to those of the religious institutions. Yes, society is structured in a way that always has those it has failed and marginalized. “The poor you will always have with you,” is a recognition that we need continual efforts on several levels.

            I have posted Biblical sources in this discussion and should not repeat them here.

          • niknar

            Thank-you for all you do! My uncle runs a food bank, too, & my aunt is a pastor. You seem to exemplify the values they display.

            I’m flabbergasted by all the antagonism you’ve been receiving by self-proclaimed “Christians”!

          • Jane

            Jesus commanded the people to care for the poor; he did not command the government to care for the poor. The responsibility is on all of us as individuals.

          • Morton99

            We the people are the government !!!!

          • floral

            No We the PEOPLE established the representative constitutional Republic.We CONSENTED to be governed according to limitations.

          • Morton99

            Which is splitting hairs. We the people will also fire by majority vote – and representative who dares to defy the Constitution even if the courts fail to do so.

          • floral

            We the people are NOT the government. It is not splitting hairs to be accurate, which you are not. You are conflating. Yes we can “fire” some representatives, but we did NOT fire BO whose ever action was unconstitutional.

          • niknar

            Haven’t you heard of “government of the people, by the people & for the people”? By that measure then, Morton is correct that people are the government. At least that is the ideal. Reality is clearly far different, as the people have virtually no voice in today’s government.

          • Estell Newton

            God put the governmental authorities in their position to keep peace and the laws. The liberals think they are above the law. Even if no one voted, the person God wants in office would still get in. God is still in control whether the left-wing liberals and atheists like it or not. They will realize that when it’s too late and of course Christians will be blamed. After all, they can’t blame anything on their own stupidity. And it’s individuals that are to take care of the poor. Our tax money is NOT to go for welfare payments. And social security is NOT welfare. We worked for those checks. It’s the peo0ple who are sitting on their lazy butts at home that refuse to work that are getting welfare. The Bible states that if you don’t work you don’t eat. Of course those who can’t work don’t fall into that because the poor and those who couldn’t work were allowed to solicit alms. No one wants to deny money and other help to those who can’t work.

          • Morton99

            The so called ‘liberals (who) think they are above the law.’ formed a popular majority at last election and now are probably an overwhelming majority based on any of the polling. They have (and still are) biding their time until the next election. They will reverse every evil Trump E/O and provide healthcare to this nation. I would be behind setting up a State like Texas for the Trump base where they could secede and live as they choose for ever more.

          • Estell Newton

            Trump is NOT the evil that you liberals are trying to make him out. O’bama care is a farce and if have ever held down a paying job you would know that insurance rates were lower when people got insurance under their employer than under Obama care. Also, many employers stopped offerring insurance which helped to raise the Obamacare premiums. Get off your liberal high horse and get a brain. Democrats will NOT win next election. Trump will be our last president because Jesus is coming for his people.

          • Morton99

            Re Obamacare. That is a total lie. I was paying for insurance in 2008 and it had already doubled since 2007 and doubled again in 2009. That industry was collapsing at that time which is why it became the major debate in Congress.

          • Estell Newton

            I was working at that time too and the insurance did NOT change nor did what we paid.

          • Morton99

            Possibly because of a contract that spanned that time period. But I can assure you that the industry was collapsing in 2009 which is the ONLY reason such a controversial issue became so important.

          • Estell Newton

            The collapse occured because of Obama care. Employers weren’t even t hinking of stopping the usual insurance until AFTER Obamacare started. And the insurance companies are still t hriving. So you can’t be right. They have been constantly recruiting new business without letup. What they have been doing is opting out of Obama care.

          • Morton99

            You are very poorly informed. There was a huge liquidity crisis in 2008-2009. People were let go in the millions. Major auto companies were in collapse. Large corporations could not borrow payroll funds. Insurance companies were also facing bankruptcy. Obama allowed the Federal government to provide liquidity via the repo/reverse system that the chartered banks could no longer control. This nation was literally on the verge of bankruptcy. Without doing anything hospitals were about to lay off their staffs. They had NO CASH.

          • Estell Newton

            You listen to fake news. The insurance companies were still issuing policies. Obamacare stopped that isuance because people were lured into the fake news that stated Obama care was better. It wasn’t till AFTER Obamacare went into effect that employers started making people get their own policies. There was no reason for it other that Obama wanted to control every move everone made. HE is the evil one. Don’t try to convince me that your liberal way of t hinking is superior because it isn’t It’s only going to get out country into more problems. You dummycrats need a rude awakening which you will get shortly.

          • Morton99

            No – I was a vice president on Wall Street at that time and I had a dress circle seat at the impending disaster. Many Wall St CEOs should be in jail now – but they had terrific political connections it seems and so they ducked the consequences of speculation.

          • Morton99

            Between December 2007 (when the recession officially began) and last month, more than 8 million Americans have lost their jobs, according to the government. Of those job losses, 700,000 stem from layoffs at just 25 companies, according to 24/7 Wall Street’s analysis of data from employment consulting firm Challenger, Gray & Christmas.

            Certain industries figure prominently on this list of layoff kings. The auto industry, for example, is estimated to have cut nearly 200,000 jobs in the U.S. since 2006. The industry’s union, the United Auto Workers, has been able to preserve blue collar jobs in the industry for decades, but the recession and foreign competition have proven too formidable for the union to fight against.

            The financial services sector was another culprit. The financial meltdown forced some banks to close (Lehman Brothers, Bear Stearns) and others to be acquired (Merrill Lynch, Washington Mutual), leaving hundreds of bankers, brokers and assistants without jobs.

          • mtman2

            WE still don’t- as its all faux/fiat currency controlled by international “moneychanger Globalist’s and now WE have $20+trillion in direct debt and $120+trillion in unfunded mandates.
            Obama never ran anything- esp not successfully and was a Marxist/Alinsky-ite ideolog as is Hilliar’y…

          • Morton99

            This is the fact. A Republican government ran this nation into bankruptcy. Obama faced this Herculean challenge and brought it out of bankruptcy. With hindsight you can make theoretical arguments about what could have been done better. The facts on the ground were not nearly so academic. Most of the massive increase in national debt was actually incurred as an unpaid liability before Obama’s first day in office.

          • floral

            The so called collapse and Great Recession was set into motion by Clinton policies f orcing lenders to make bad loans and in exchange getting FannieMae and Freddie mac to “buy” those bad loans. That created the housing bubble, overheating the housing market, bankrupting FNMA and FMC and many lenders and buyers of junk bonds and mortgages and of course his spending. Bush failed to understand what was happening and Congress failed to institute the tax cuts in time and curb the lending and junk dealing. When the Bush tax cuts went into effect fully, the income tax revenue to the government increased 30%, but the spending was already out of control and those “big banks”, were even far more out of control. Clinton removed a lot of the regulations which kept the big banks under control. They should have gone out of business and despite the bailout, which bo put onto steroids, they did anyway, taking with them the huge amount of taxpayer funds used to try to keep them in business.

          • Morton99

            Oh My ! You really got that one totally wrong. That ‘logic’ was debunked by the courts some years ago – and to date the banks that speculated on credit default swaps (mortgage backed security insurance securities) have been fined hundreds of millions of dollars. You seem to have a huge appetite for fallacious propaganda !

          • floral

            No the courts did NOT “debunk”.

          • mtman2

            Doesn’t matter it’s not the U.S. legal Consitutional venue to be involved past their few and emuerated powers= tyranny.
            Markets must find equilibrium- losers will crash and burn.

            *Tort reform laws needed to limit huge waste of money and paperwork.
            – AND –
            *Interstate portability was the tickets needed-
            along with catastrophic insurance and health savings accounts.

          • Morton99

            Those mantras are pumped out constantly by conservatives. Limiting damages for law suits would result in huge numbers of people still dying from lung cancer – for example. That was the beginnings of grumbling about tort reform. Yes, tobacco companies lost enormous amounts of money (as did undertakers and insurance companies) – as a result. So on balance it is pretty easy to knock down the ‘expensive’ argument with a rational debate based upon real evidence.
            Interstate portability (of health insurance) in fact is a red herring. Health costs are categorized by factors totally unrelated to State demarcations – State insurance licensing – equipment costs, density of population, and most of all – the risk pools. If you lump a low income state in with a high income state – the risk pools may not alter premiums because low income states tend to have larger numbers of residents in poorer health.
            Health Savings accounts are simply a method of permitting tax deductions via tax free accounts for wealthier citizens. It means they can afford to pay higher premiums, the government loses tax revenue and healthcare among the population really gets neither better nor worse.

          • floral

            EVIL EO’s were the province of bo. To which EO’s you allege rumple wrote are you referring?

          • mtman2

            Yes via nonprofit volunteer orgs- not force extraction of induvuduls largess to squander us into untold debt…

          • mtman2

            If WE wake up and get busy being diligent about who, what, where, and when as what WE should be doung..
            See-
            krisannehall.com
            wallbuilders.com
            -AND-
            hillsdale.com

          • floral

            Salvation is not contingent on works. HIS gift is Grace, forgiveness of sin and salvation for those who believe on HIM.

          • PION🇺🇸🇺🇸R

            Yes, I believe salvation is through Grace and grace alone. And “by their works ye will know them” identifies those who have earned Grace – by following Matt 25. 😇

          • floral

            You don’t “earn” Grace. YOU don’t know how God deals with each individual.

          • PION🇺🇸🇺🇸R

            You don’t get it do you? Yes, you don’t earn grace AND we know those who receive grace because their actions reflect the grace of God. ✝️✡️☦️

          • floral

            You are the one who is legalistic and “does not get it” Read the parable of the lost son who repented and note the thief on the cross next to Christ-all he did was believe in Jesus, THAT is the “works” that are necessary.

          • fran

            Clever reference to Matthew 25: 31-45, but you conveniently bypassed the “awful” Parable of the Ten Virgins and the Parable of the Talents — where the five wise virgins do NOT share their oil with the five foolish virgins, and the men who made money from the ruler’s largess are commended, where the man who “saved” his allotment was not. You are elevating one line of Scripture over the entire body of the glorious Gospels, and that is — and has always been — a serious error.

            Thank you SO much for expressing your concern over my eternal fate, but Jesus settled the matter many years ago, when He revealed to me His great love and salvation as a GIFT from His atoning death on the Cross. It is not — nor never WILL be — a “reward”; it is a GIFT (please read Acts 2:14-21). In Acts 2, Peter, having been inspired by Jesus’s Holy Spirit, did not mention ONCE the need to do “good works” such as you so strongly suggest. All he said was, “Believe on the Name [character and finished work] and you will be saved.” He mentions no Roman social work or Senatorial bill. He never once suggests that the Sanhedrin should have instituted “corporal works of mercy” in order to find Christ’s favor.

            And in the passage of Scripture you want to concentrate on, you are inaccurate in stating that Jesus “commands” His followers to do ANY thing — He RECOGNIZES the love involved in meeting the needs of those around us. And it is LOVE — nothing else — that matters to Him. In the 12th chapter of Mark, “Jesus replied, “This is the most important [commandment]: ‘Hear O Israel, the Lord our God is One Lord, and you shall love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind and with all your strength.’ The second is this: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’ No other commandment is greater than these.”…(verses 29 – 31). Only Jesus (God) can see when (or if) we reach this point. Why not concentrate on what Jesus said is MOST important? And — as the Gospels, Acts, and the epistles demonstrate, everything else important follows.

          • PION🇺🇸🇺🇸R

            I agree. The new Covenant is summed up in the Love of the Lord and Neighbors. That is the entire point.

            How can we, then, cut programs that provide food, shelter, health care, education, etc. to our neighbors as (as we would cut them for ourselves and our families?). That may be your type of love; it is not mine. To each their own be true.

          • fran

            By “we” you obviously mean every working person (the poor are not taxed). Consider this passage from St. Paul:
            “For even while we were with you, we gave you this command: “If anyone is unwilling to work, he shall not eat.” Yet we hear that some of you are leading undisciplined lives and accomplishing nothing but being busybodies. We command and urge such people by our Lord Jesus Christ to begin working quietly to earn their own living” (2 Thessalonians 3:10-12). Are you going to suggest that everyone Paul was addressing was “prosperous” and “middle class”? He seems pretty “heartless” — doesn’t he?

            The idea of government support for “poor people” is a 20th-century construct; you will find no evidence of it in the entire Bible. (And the Christians sharing among themselves was TOTALLY voluntary — no one was “taxed” in order to support another person). You might be interested in reading 1 Samuel 8:11-19, where the prophet Samuel states that taxes (a 10th, by the way — no more) will be gathered to support the king and his army — no mention is made of “programs for the poor.” Zip. Zilch. Nada. All taxes go to support the king, and whatever he wanted to do with them.

            “Love” that is forced out of us in the way of taxes is not love at all. Friend, feel free to start a Food Closet or a daily feeding program or a housing program for the homeless or free education (oops! we already have that, but it’s pretty poor) any time you want. In fact, devote as much of your salary to this endeavor as you feel necessary. You say (from Shakespeare) “to thy own self be true”; I think I will stick to studying my Bible, giving to charities who feed the poor, and using the rest of my salary to support myself and my family.

          • PION🇺🇸🇺🇸R

            It cuts many ways.
            The words of Paul in the 13th chapter of Romans are perhaps the most extensive teaching in the New Testament about the role and purposes of government. Paul says those purposes are twofold: to restrain evil by punishing evildoers and to serve peace and orderly conduct by rewarding good behavior. Civil authority is designed to be “God’s servant for your good” (13:4). Today we might say “the common good” is to be the focus and goal of government.

            So the purpose of government, according to Paul, is to protect and promote. Protect from the evil and promote the good, and we are even instructed to pay taxes for those purposes. So to disparage government per se — to see government as the central problem in society — is simply not a biblical position.

            First, government is supposed to protect its people. That certainly means protecting its citizens’ safety and security. Crime and violence will always be real in this world, and that’s why we have the police, who are meant to keep our streets, neighborhoods, and homes safe.

            Governments also need to protect their people judicially, and make sure our legal and court systems are procedurally just and fair. The biblical prophets regularly rail against corrupt court decisions and systems, in which the wealthy and powerful manipulate the legal processes for their own benefit and put the poor into greater debt or distress. The prophet Amos speaks directly to the courts (and government) when he says, “Hate evil, love good; maintain justice in the courts” (Amos 5:15 NIV).

            But along with protecting, what should governments promote? The prophets hold kings, rulers, judges, and even employers accountable to the demands of justice and fairness, therefore promoting those values.

            And the Scriptures say that governmental authority is to protect the poor in particular. The biblical prophets are consistent and adamant in their condemnation of injustice to the poor, and frequently follow their statements by requiring the king (the government) to act justly. That prophetic expectation did not apply only to the kings of Israel but was also extended to the kings of neighboring lands and peoples.

            Jeremiah, speaking of King Josiah, said, “He defended the cause of the poor and needy, and so all went well.”

            Psalm 72 begins with a prayer for kings or political leaders: “Give the king your justice, O God, and your righteousness to a king’s son. May he judge your people with righteousness, and your poor with justice. May the mountains yield prosperity for the people, and the hills, in righteousness. May he defend the cause of the poor of the people, give deliverance to the needy, and crush the oppressor.”

            There is a powerful vision here for promoting the common good — a vision of “righteous” prosperity for all the people, with special attention to the poor and to “deliverance” for the most vulnerable and needy, and even a concern for the land.

            Evangelical theologian Ron Sider says:

            The biblical understanding of justice clearly includes both procedural and distributive aspects. That the procedures must be fair is clear in the several texts that demand unbiased courts (Exodus 23:2-8; Leviticus 19:15; Deuteronomy 1:17; 10:17-19). That distributive justice (i.e., fair outcomes) is also a central part of justice is evident not just from the hundreds of texts about God’s concern for the poor … but also in the meaning of the key Hebrew words for justice (mishpat and tsedaqah).

            Time and again the prophets use mishpat and tsedaqah to refer to fair economic outcomes. Immediately after denouncing Israel and Judah for the absence of justice, the prophet Isaiah condemns the way rich and powerful landowners have acquired all the land by pushing out small farmers (Isaiah 5:7-9). It is important to note that even though in this text the prophet does not say the powerful acted illegally, he nevertheless denounces the unfair outcome

          • fran

            Ron Sider may use all the Hebrew words in his lexicon, but he is wrong in saying that the Old Testament prophets demanded redistribution of wealth in the name of “justice.” The poor may have been poor because they were cheated out of wages — hence the call for a fair judgment from the leaders or elders in each city — but there was nothing in the Mosaic law that dictated that they were EVER entitled to claim another person’s wealth or property. That would be STEALING, and would violate the 8th Commandment.

            You are STILL talking about taking from the “rich” to give to the “poor” by GOVERNMENT FIAT. And it just ISN’T THERE IN THE BIBLE!!! You are also substituting the 21st “social justice” nonsense for biblical justice — which is RESTORATIVE, not DISTRIBUTIVE.

            If you honestly believe that God commanded the Israelites to raise crops and then hand them out to their neighbors, I challenge you to explain why God never instructed Joshua to make that a condition of settling the Hebrews in the Promised Land. (Every single person was allotted a piece of land by the priest using the Urim and Thummin, in order to raise their own food, and to support themselves.) in 1,500 years of pre-Christian history, nothing like what you claim is “Biblical” ever occurred — even in the period of the Judges (post-Joshua). As I pointed out before, Solomon in all his wisdom did NOT institute “redistribution of wealth.” You are grasping at straws to say that instances of “justice” were really “re-assignments of wealth” — despite what any so-called “expert” says.

          • mtman2

            The program is personal as he was – not collective like communist who hate God and turn one another in for rewards or higher station.
            Taking from someone is NOR giving…

          • mtman2

            Exactly the case….

          • dpg01

            Nonsense. He would help those who help themselves.

          • PION🇺🇸🇺🇸R

            Unbeliever! See Matthew 25.

          • dpg01

            2 Thessalonians 3:10 For even
            when we were with you, we gave you this rule: “The one who is unwilling to work shall not eat.”

          • PION🇺🇸🇺🇸R

            That was not Jesus. Jesus fed the multitude and asked not for a pay stub.
            Matthew 25 is the word from the Lord. Amen.

          • dpg01

            Who are u to decide who the believers are? What does the bible say about judging others? I like the quote about helping those who help themselves.

          • PION🇺🇸🇺🇸R

            Amen

          • floral

            The “multitude” fed each other.

          • PION🇺🇸🇺🇸R

            Uhhhhh.

          • floral

            Matthew 25 is not the only Word from the Lord. According to the Christ, his disciples, after the Resurrection, were apostles and carried HIS WORD as though it came directly from HIM, which it did.

          • PION🇺🇸🇺🇸R

            So . . . . 🙄

          • floral

            Allora….you cannot respond with any valid comment, nor admit your judgment.

          • floral

            Matthew 25 is a series of parables, NOT commands.

          • PION🇺🇸🇺🇸R

            Jesus came to change the world. Not to amuse you with stories to support your resistance to his directives.

          • floral

            Change the hearts and minds of individuals spiritually, NOT to command we pay taxes to government to institute social programs.

          • PION🇺🇸🇺🇸R

            Oh thou of twisted faith. You miss the words of the Bible for your own greedy ideology. Read the word here:

            The words of Paul in the 13th chapter of Romans are perhaps the most extensive teaching in the New Testament about the role and purposes of government. Paul says those purposes are twofold: to restrain evil by punishing evildoers and to serve peace and orderly conduct by rewarding good behavior. Civil authority is designed to be “God’s servant for your good” (13:4). Today we might say “the common good” is to be the focus and goal of government.
            So the purpose of government, according to Paul, is to protect and promote. Protect from the evil and promote the good, and we are even instructed to pay taxes for those purposes. So to disparage government per se — to see government as the central problem in society — is simply not a biblical position.
            First, government is supposed to protect its people. That certainly means protecting its citizens’ safety and security. Crime and violence will always be real in this world, and that’s why we have the police, who are meant to keep our streets, neighborhoods, and homes safe.
            Governments also need to protect their people judicially, and make sure our legal and court systems are procedurally just and fair. The biblical prophets regularly rail against corrupt court decisions and systems, in which the wealthy and powerful manipulate the legal processes for their own benefit and put the poor into greater debt or distress. The prophet Amos speaks directly to the courts (and government) when he says, “Hate evil, love good; maintain justice in the courts” (Amos 5:15 NIV).
            But along with protecting, what should governments promote? The prophets hold kings, rulers, judges, and even employers accountable to the demands of justice and fairness, therefore promoting those values.
            And the Scriptures say that governmental authority is to protect the poor in particular. The biblical prophets are consistent and adamant in their condemnation of injustice to the poor, and frequently follow their statements by requiring the king (the government) to act justly. That prophetic expectation did not apply only to the kings of Israel but was also extended to the kings of neighboring lands and peoples.
            Jeremiah, speaking of King Josiah, said, “He defended the cause of the poor and needy, and so all went well.”
            Psalm 72 begins with a prayer for kings or political leaders: “Give the king your justice, O God, and your righteousness to a king’s son. May he judge your people with righteousness, and your poor with justice. May the mountains yield prosperity for the people, and the hills, in righteousness. May he defend the cause of the poor of the people, give deliverance to the needy, and crush the oppressor.”
            There is a powerful vision here for promoting the common good — a vision of “righteous” prosperity for all the people, with special attention to the poor and to “deliverance” for the most vulnerable and needy, and even a concern for the land.
            [Caring for the Poor is Government’s Biblical Role
            By Jim Wallis 8-30-2012 ]

          • floral

            Jim Wallis is no authority. Being saved is far more important that giving food to “the poor” who may not be so poor. They need spiritual food, not bread.
            How judgmental of you to accuse me of “greedy ideology” I have said NOTHING about accumulating wealth for myself. I am poor by choice. I depend on God, not on the government or the feelgood, if I give to the “poor”, I’ll get into heaven no matter how shabbily I have treated and judged other Christians, pharisees like you.

          • PION🇺🇸🇺🇸R

            It is Paul, not Jim Wallace, that is relevant to this discussion.

            And, yes, the widow’s two farthings are recognized and Heeded appropriately.

          • floral

            It is wallace you quoted and his “interpretation” of Paul’s words. The Constitution does NOT grant the power to tax anyone for the purpose of wealth distribution. It is NOT the job of our government to care for the poor, who are not poor.
            I said nothing about the widow’s mite, but glad you at least understand the concept. However what I said so artlessly that YOU clearly misunderstood that it was directed to you is that YOU are focussed on works, that you think if you give to the poor and make yourself feel good and demand that others have to to get into Heaven that you ignore the shabby judgmental way you treat others esp Christians.

          • PION🇺🇸🇺🇸R

            Last comment on this topic: What is it about “Promote the General Welfare” that you do not understand? U.S. Constitution— “We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.”

            Laws duly enacted by Congress and signed by the President are the law of the land and the responsibility of every Citizen who claims to be a patriotic supporter thereof!

          • floral

            I hope this is your last foolish comment. Obviously YOU don’t understand the Preamble and what it means nor the WORDS therein.
            Preambles are NOT powers. Those are enumerated in the Constitution and not one gives congress the power to feed the poor, or provide medical care or any other social program. PROMOTE the General Welfare, does not MEAN giving money to those who refuse to work, or got so disabled from drugs or alcohol they cannot work. Promote does not mean “engage” and “provide”. Encourage, yes but that is not what happened when the socialist FDR extorted SCOTUS to rule SS constitutional which they knew it was NOT. Welfare in the Constitution does not mean passing out money or there would be an enumerated power suggesting or stating it.
            Laws are NOT the responsibility of each citizen. They are enforced, sometimes, on some people but enforcement and followup are the purview of the bureaucrats, ANOTHER unconstitutional governmental overreach. I do NOT CONSENT to the government forcing me or anyone into any religious commandment YOU dream up as a commandment, nor do I consent to paying for a wasteful governmental program that churches used to do much better without governmental intrusion, ALSO unconstitutional. I will continue to oppose and fight to end all welfare programs, all government grants for ridiculous research, the FDA, the USDA, commerce, education, Housing among a few. That IS my responsibility, to insist that government not exceed its bounds as established by the Constitution. That is what our forefathers fought for.

          • floral

            Change the world-no to SAVE the world-those who believe on HIM will be saved. “Be in the world not OF the world”

          • floral

            Naughty, naughty. How JUDGMENTAL and INTOLERANT of you.

          • PION🇺🇸🇺🇸R

            Just quoting Jesus words about his judgments-final that is.

          • floral

            “unbeliever”? is quoting Jesus?

          • Rex Whitmer

            He did not infringe upon the freedom of choice. If the rich chose to keep their wealth, then perhaps they might not be as welcome to his kingdom. God forces no man to Heaven, despite what some preachers will tell you! He pleads for you, helps you, and shows you the way, but you have to go the way.

          • PION🇺🇸🇺🇸R

            I think you’re right on. And the way is in Matthew 25: Parable of the Last Judgment.

          • Rex Whitmer

            I agree, as does most if not all of Christendom. It will be a wonderful time for some and terrible for others!

          • floral

            but not a command, a parable to explain the why and how some will be accepted and others not, not a command to be a certain way. The 5 wise virgins did not share with the foolish ones…….

          • PION🇺🇸🇺🇸R

            So there is a parable for just about anything you want to claim?

          • floral

            grasping at straws that don’t exist? YOU are the one claiming a single parable is a COMMAND.

        • Rex Whitmer

          On HIS terms!

      • floral

        Neither.

    • PION🇺🇸🇺🇸R

      Of course you know that because some of your best friends are atheists?

      • floral

        I pity the fool (you pio)

  • Victoria poupko

    Even Netaniahu congratulated Christians with “Merry Chrisrtmas”

    • PION🇺🇸🇺🇸R

      As it should be. AND, he did not greet Israelis and Palestinians with Merry Christmas. As it should be.

  • PION🇺🇸🇺🇸R

    🇺🇸 It seems to me that you and Trump have a war on religions other than yours. Shame on you! ✝️✡️☸️☪️☯️🕎🛐💟✝️

    • Rachel Brock

      Jesus is the only way.

      • PION🇺🇸🇺🇸R

        Thanks for reaffirming my comment.

        • Rachel Brock

          Of course you would have to believe what the Bible says to accept this:

          John 14

          1Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me. 2In my Father’s house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you. 3And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also. 4And whither I go ye know, and the way ye know.

          The Way, the Truth, and the Life
          5Thomas saith unto him, Lord, we know not whither thou goest; and how can we know the way? 6Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

          • PION🇺🇸🇺🇸R

            Most importantly, . . .Matthew: 25:31 When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit on the throne of his glory: 32And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divides his sheep from the goats: 33And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.

            34Then shall the King say to them on his right hand, Come, you blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world: 35For I was an hungered, and you gave me meat: I was thirsty, and you gave me drink: I was a stranger, and you took me in: 36Naked, and you clothed me: I was sick, and you visited me: I was in prison, and you came to me. 37Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we you an hungered, and fed you? or thirsty, and gave you drink? 38When saw we you a stranger, and took you in? or naked, and clothed you? 39Or when saw we you sick, or in prison, and came to you? 40And the King shall answer and say to them, Truly I say to you, Inasmuch as you have done it to one of the least of these my brothers, you have done it to me.

            41Then shall he say also to them on the left hand, Depart from me, you cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels: 42For I was an hungered, and you gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and you gave me no drink: 43I was a stranger, and you took me not in: naked, and you clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and you visited me not. 44Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we you an hungered, or thirsty, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister to you? 45Then shall he answer them, saying, Truly I say to you, Inasmuch as you did it not to one of the least of these, you did it not to me. 46And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.

            I’m waiting for The President and Congressional majority to do as the Lord commands.

          • floral

            Cherry picker with no understanding……
            hunger and thirst refers to hungering and thirsting for the Word of God. For man does not live by bread alone but by every Word out of the mouth of GOD.

          • PION🇺🇸🇺🇸R

            “Truly I say to you, Inasmuch as you did it not to one of the least of these, you did it not to me.” is a command for action one to another, not one seeking spirituality.

            If the children of God do not act as he commands, they are disobeying him/ her.

            Pardon me, the Constitution gives Congress power to do what is not given to the states.

            I agree that the Constitution forbids Congress from establishing any religion.

            I also believe that Citizens and Officials should act on their beliefs, and for Christians that means using means available, including support for public policies that embody the commands of Matthew 25. No cherry picking.

          • Rachel Brock

            And Romans chaper 1

          • floral

            You have everything backwards, esp on the Constitution. You are NOT pardoned for being in error. Congress has enumerated powers and is limited to those. All other powers are RESERVED for the citizens and/or states.
            Citizens, esp Christians, used to do all the charitable works, without taxpayer funds, but the government took that away and regulated those remaining so they could NOT ACT on their beliefs.
            Congress does have a few Christians and some muslims and atheists. Congress has NO power to force any belief, but it does, usually to the detriment of the freedom of religion for Christians.
            Do you really believe, unconstitutionally, that muslims should ACT on their beliefs that would abolish the Constitution and establish an islamic caliphate and Sharia Law?
            Congress has no power to pass public policies that embody ANY religious “commands” nor should it, nor should Congress or the Courts prevent any public acknowledgment of faith and 10 commandments. This country was founded by Christians for religious liberty, not so the government could expand its powers beyond those granted constitutionally and restrict freedoms.

          • floral

            You have NO right to judge Christians, based on your inaccurate out of context interpretations.

          • PION🇺🇸🇺🇸R

            Duh. No interpretations. Just the words of The Lord. ☪️✡️☪️🕎💟✝️

          • floral

            You INTERPRETED the words, out of context and without indicating which “translation” you were using.

          • floral

            No, you cherry picked the Words, leaving out the first 2 parables in Matthew 25 and misinterpreting the 3rd parable the sheep and goats as a command. It is not to feed the poor etc but to be wise and prepared for the Coming of the Lord, for “no man knows the day and hour….”

          • PION🇺🇸🇺🇸R

            Don’t you get it? The parable tells us how to prepare for the Lord!

          • floral

            I SAID that. All the parables tell us lessons. Your interpretation is that it is a COMMAND. The thief on the Cross did not have time to prepare that way you say is a COMMAND. He was taken to Paradise by the Lord because of his belief. THAT is what is important Believe and stay strong in your faith. If you are called to feed the poor with bread then that is what the Lord wants YOU to do, not the government.

          • floral

            Do you not know any other New Testament passages?

        • floral

          Not so fast. Nothing affirms your false, inaccurate, lying comment.

    • fran

      And you have a war with the words of Jesus Christ: “I am the way, the truth, and the life. No [hu]man comes to the Father except through Me” (John 14:6). Clear and unequivocal. But He challenges you and everyone like you to seek “the WHOLE counsel of God” (Acts 20:27). What you are guilty of is offering a smattering of understanding, when you should be constantly studying God’s Word in humility and faith. It is VERY easy to do what you are doing — slapping people in their digital faces with snappy retorts; it is going to be far, far harder to stand in front of a Holy God and spout your “beliefs.”

      • PION🇺🇸🇺🇸R

        Seeing a His word here should not upset you if you truly believe.

        • Rachel Brock

          Oh I truly believe and I can say living as a true Christian is the hardest thing anyone can do. That is why most people will not do it. It is easier to live as you please and not have to be accountable for your sins.

          • niknar

            …and also to admonish others for not following your own beliefs of right & wrong.

    • William McClure

      No, YOU are instigating the war with your half baked complaints

      • PION🇺🇸🇺🇸R

        I’m not disparaging adherents of religions other than mine. Are you?

        • floral

          Actually, you HAVE disparaged and been disrespectful to Christians with your language. You are mumpsimus.

          • PION🇺🇸🇺🇸R

            Nah. Flabbergasted.

          • floral

            Non responsive but yes you are foolish and disrespectful.

          • PION🇺🇸🇺🇸R

            Judge not lest ye be judged .. . .

          • floral

            Take your own advice-you judge with every comment, mumpsimus

          • floral

            We are called to be fruit inspectors-your fruit is rotten and YOU JUDGE.

          • niknar

            I have read a number of Pioneer’s comments & haven’t seen a single one disparaging true followers of Christianity. To the contrary I find his/her comments among the most consonant with Christian values of anyone on this forum.

          • floral

            I do not. I find him to misinterpret, be demanding, judgmental and disparaging and misunderstanding of Christians that express themselves in less judgmental terms. A true Christian is not for you or him to decide-only God knows the heart. All that is required to be a “true” Christian is to accept the gift of Salvation and believe in Jesus the Christ as did the thief on the Cross.

          • niknar

            “A true Christian is not for you or him to decide” But you seem to have assigned yourself as the judge of what is Christian & what is not, what is true & what is not, & what is logical & what is not, even when what you say is flagrantly un-Christian, untrue & illogical.

          • floral

            No you twist and misuse MY words. I object to pio’s concentration on 1 parable and ignoring everything else that Christians believe and the WORD says.
            Who are you to judge what I have to say about the Bible and the New Testament as “flagrantly un-Christian, untrue and illogical.”? I simply said what Christ said about what it takes to be a Christian and it is merely and simply BELIEF in the Gift of salvation, the ultimate sacrifice to pay for the sins of the world. I as all Christians are called to be fruit inspectors. I am not alone on this blog in taking pio to task for his FLAGRANT inability to acknowledge his illogic and cherry picking and judgmental focus on a single parable and ignoring the totality of the Gospel and disparaging anyone who clarifies or questions his questionable judgment.

          • niknar

            The one I see judging & disparaging others is you!

          • floral

            you are blind

          • niknar

            Keep posting to yourself! I love it!

          • floral

            That is YOUR ball of wax.

  • IMSweetOlBob

    Who cares what the Atheists want ? The separation of Church and State means that the State will not force any single religion, or no religion, on the people.
    It does not mean that the State, or the courts may force even the acceptance of one belief upon ANONE.
    So the Atheists are free to believe what they want and so am I and so are you.
    As an American, I am free to profess any faith, or no faith, I might have in a supreme being. So are the Atheists. So are you. And so is PRESIDENT TRUMP.
    So they, the Atheists can believe what they want and shut the hell up and stop trying to reach for government approval for their choice !
    Oh ! I forgot ! They don’t believe in hell, either.

    • Rachel Brock

      To be an Atheist they would have to conclude that there is no evil in the world right?

      • niknar

        No. Evil has nothing to do with it. Evil is clearly prevalent in human society & everybody can see it (at least one would think so). Atheism is just disbelieving the existence of a being with superhuman powers. Most atheists are against evil but would fight evil in ways that would not rely on God or religious institutions.

        • floral

          what is evil to an atheist? Believing in God? Sure seems that way, because atheists spend most of their time bashing Christians and trying to keep Christians from expressing and exercising their faith. An atheist was so offended by the majority having prayer in school, he fought to have it banned all the way to the SCOTUS. atheists have no clear moral code or basis for such. That said, like (the Christian evangelist) C. S. Lewis, a former atheist, I would play cards with a man who was brought up to believe a gentleman did not cheat at cards, but would be very cautious about playing cards with a pastor brought up by card sharks.

          • niknar

            Having prayer in public schools is a clear violation of separation of church & state. Most atheists care not a whit whether or how other people choose to worship as long as it doesn’t infringe on their right not to worship or be compelled to worship. It’s as simple as that.

          • floral

            There IS NO separation of Church and State in the Constitution. Atheists go out of their way to condemn any public expression by Christians of faith…..

          • niknar

            Literally you may be correct, but this concept, which is an interpretation of the intentions of the First Amendment, is nearly as old as the Constitution & came from Thomas Jefferson himself in 1802.

          • floral

            No it did NOT. The ONLY thing is expressed in the Constitution No establishment of a single religion, nor infringement on free exercise of religion.
            Jefferson’s letter to the Danbury Baptists was sympathetic to the persecution they experienced under the State of Connecticuts establishment of a “state” religion. SCOTUS misinterpreted and misquoted the letter AS THOUGH it were Constitutional. It is NOT.
            Jefferson said that he looked forward to the time that the individual states adopted the 1st amendment and that there SHOULD be a Wall of separation between Church and State. All of his writings endorse ONLY the concept that the government should have NO involvement in any faith nor establish a state run religion as was the case with Britain and one of the MAIN REASONS the Revolution happened.

          • floral

            You want the interpretation of the 1st amendment made by the Chief Justice Story in 1836, read his commentaries on the constitution.
            BTW Jefferson thought his VA Bill on Religious Freedom was his best work-not a single concept of “separation of church and state”, just NO government sponsorship of any Christian denomination, because that would lead to corruption of the clergy, seen in the theocracy of Britain……

          • floral

            Atheists deny the free exercise of worship by Christians. They are not “compelled” to worship just because the majority wants to pray.

          • niknar

            There are plenty of venues for Christians to pray in private. Muslims do a lot more praying than Christians & manage to find places to do it without forcing it on non-Muslims, too.

          • floral

            Not true. muslims demand 5x a day prayer on school grounds AND on public property AND on their employer’s time and place.
            Senate opens each session with prayer, God is on our money, and in SCOTUS chambers.
            Atheists have NO RIGHT to be free of others’s expressions of faith. I find atheists attempts to denigrate Christians and ONLY Christians quite offensive, not to mention their illogic, irrationality and feeble attempts at making themselves superior and above faith in something other than themselves. Such pettiness you display.

          • niknar

            Muslims find a place to pray & pray without involving anyone else, & that’s it. If you’re asking that Christians do the same, then I agree.

          • floral

            Not true at all. Muslims in Christian and Catholic schools demand that all references to Jesus, Crosses, hymnals, prayer cards, pictures be removed from classrooms and they DO involve others by their demands to disrupt work shifts by their 5x a day prayers and “clean” rooms. Many insist on praying outside in public on public and private commercial property.
            I don’t CARE what atheists want. They are not the majority nor are they injured in any way by the expressions of faith of anyone else. Since it bothers them so much, that indicates they are not so secure in their “faith” in nothing or themselves as they would like us to believe.

          • niknar

            “Muslims in Christian and Catholic schools demand…” What utter nonsense is this?

          • floral

            There are a number of muslims that entered a Catholic university around DC who demanded a “clean” classroom and a special room to pray 5x per day regardless of whether class was in session or not. They demanded all references to Jesus, all crosses, hymnals, religious artifacts. This was quite recent and the “government” required the Catholic school to accede.
            In public schools, muslim children and their parents demanded that teaching in geography and nutrition erase all references to pork and demanded halal meats in the cafeteria OR no meat at all be served AND the children HAD to be taught islam was the major and TRUE religion and Christianity merely a heretical minor religion AND that their children be allowed to pray in the classroom 5x per day. (many textbooks already dismiss the influence of Christianity that created the Age of Reason and the Renaissance in Western Civilization and emphasis that Islam created learning (even though it was NOT in ascendance intellectually at ANY point.)

            Not my fault if media blackout on the truth of islam’s war on Christianity escaped your notice.

          • niknar

            Just about everything you mention is so outrageous & contrary to good sense & logic, stretching credulity to the breaking point, such that I’m sure it must be some more false right-wing propaganda that you gladly swallowed like candy.

          • floral

            You have drunk the liberal koolaid. It is outrageous that US citizens allow muslims to try to bring Sharia law into our courts (over 100 cases have been decided based on claims that muslims get to be judged under Sharia law, including battery and killing of wives, child custody in favor of muslim husbands, child abuse by muslim men)It IS outrageous that muslims demand history to exclude Christianity and pork products and that stores and cafeterias and pizza parlors provide Halal meat on the menu. Try New Jersey public schools that made the news about a year or so ago because the 10% muslim population demanded THEIR religious holidays be SCHOOL Holidays.

          • floral

            -schools don’t close for Jewish high holidays or Christian ones because of “separation of church and state” but islamic holidays? WHY?This actually made the national news and it IS OUTRAGEOUS that muslims less than 10% of the population get preferential treatment over Jews and Christians.

            Jersey City won’t close school for Islamic holiday | NJ.com
            http://www.nj.com/hudson/index.ssf/…/controversy_over_islamic_holiday_jersey_city.html
            Sep 18, 2015 – Jersey City’s school board decided against adding an Islamic holiday to its official school closure list, according to NBC New York. … “As I stated following the public voices, no matter how the Board ultimately voted, we will continue to engage the entire Jersey City community in this important conversation,” …
            Jersey City School Board Meeting Gets Heated … – NBC New York
            https://www.nbcnewyork.com/news/…/Jersey-City-Schools-Meeting-Proposal-Close-…
            Sep 17, 2015 – A Jersey City school board meeting Thursday to vote on whether to close for the Muslim holiday of Eid al-Adha on Sept. … There are approximately 27,000 students enrolled in the 38 public schools in New Jersey’s second-largest city, according to the National Center for Education Statistics. In New York …
            NYC schools buck majority to close on 2 Muslim holidays – USA Today
            https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2015/03/…/school…muslims/24431799/Mar 5, 2015 – Students of all faiths in the country’s largest school system won’t have class on two important Muslim holidays starting next school year thanks to a nearly decade-long effort from New York City’s Islamic community. The move announced Wednesday that will close the city’s public schools on Sept. 24 for Eid …

          • floral

            Only nonsense to the likes of you. You defend muslims and bash Christianity.

          • Frank Taylor

            Even our constitution has the word God within the preamble.

          • Frank Taylor

            citing the Lord’s prayer in school does not force an atheist to participate. How are they harmed?

    • floral

      There is no Constitutional separation of church and state. There is a prohibition on Congress not to establish (prefer) any religion.

  • Albert L Biele

    Atheists are people God wants in His Heaven, and should be prayed for. The fact is; we all fall short of the glory of God. If being good was the criterion for getting to heaven, the Bible wouldn’t have the story of Jesus dying for our sins, because people could get to heaven by themselves; or the Bible would say he only died for particularly wicked people. The truth is; sin is not permitted in Heaven and must be removed before one can enter God’s kingdom. The thief on the cross adjacent to Jesus simply said, “Remember me when you come into your kingdom” and Jesus responded “Truly, I say to you, today you will be with me in Paradise.” That’s how simple it is.

  • Estell Newton

    If they are so much against religion then why are they celebrating the birth of Jesus? They should be barred from celebrating ALL religious holidays including Thanksgiving. They are a bunch of hypocrits trying to take of religion. The constitution gives us the right to freedom of religion. Freedom from religion in not a constitutional right.

  • Efren Vargas

    America Constitution separate, State and Church. The White House is the resident of an American Citizen, who is free to believe whatever he wants. ANTI AMERICAN IS EVERYONE WHO OFFEND OUR CONSTITIONAL RIGHTS.

  • Len

    Atheists “believe” there’s no God, Christians “believe” there is so by that definition an atheist is just as religious … it’s so nice to hide behind “oh we don’t believe in God or religion” bulls@$$%%t but that’s just what it is … call it what you will its BULL#$%##%T!!!

  • rocky63

    The constitution merely PREVENTS CONGRESS FROM ESTABLISHING A RELIGION. Christianity was not established by Congress — it’s just the religion most Americans followed and wanted.

    In addition, the constitution prevents the government from prohibiting the “FREE EXERCISE’ of religion.

    The FFR gang is just a gang of atheists who can’t stand anyone else’s belief in God. Weinstein is the guy behind these thugs and can’t seem to get over the fact that he’s Jewish or at least pro-Jewish. FFR only attacks Crhistians — not Jews. As a Jew, doesn’t Weinstein believe in God? Of so, why does he attack Christians for such belief. It’s the same God for both Jews and Christians.

  • Ursus_Indomitus

    To hell with athies.

  • bcamota

    Like Franklin Graham says and I quote “no one has the the keys to Hell but I know who does. And I can tell you who will be there. Hell is going to be filled with people who rejected God’s offer of salvation and turned their backs on God’s laws and standards, refusing to repent.” This is fact from the Bible — God’s word. So Atheists, while you have a chance for salvation, turn around and submit to God.

    • Morton99

      Is this your explanation for a God of Love ????

      • bcamota

        Yes, God is love and God is also Just. “For God so love the world {you, me and everybody else} that if you believe in Him you will not perish but have everlasting life.” There is a condition for His love. You must accept Him as your Lord and Savior. But Atheists reject Him and so they are condemned already.

        • Morton99

          No doubt – but since we have a first Amendment the atheists are now free to look forward to a life everlasting in the infinity of the cosmic system – one free of a demanding and terrible God who punishes those who do not wish to acknowledge Him. Ah – what a sense of freedom and responsibility to believe in oneself and not the intimidation of a moral tyrant.

          • bcamota

            If you do not believe Him, should you be bothered? Atheists don’t see Him and reject Him. They shouldn’t be bothered.

          • niknar

            One could very well be bothered at being forced to conform to religious-based edicts that violate one’s own sense of what’s right, just & true

          • bcamota

            God who created all things has given every human being the right to choose, There is not a case in the Bible where God forced anyone to believe Him. The problem of Atheists is that they claim that there is no God and yet they are bothered. Why? If they believe that the earth is flat, why are they bothered when other people believe that the planet earth is round?

          • niknar

            Bad example. It was the Catholic theocracy that claimed that the Earth is flat & the universe revolves around the Earth, & persecuted Galileo for declaring otherwise.

          • bcamota

            If what you know is true, then don’t be bothered by the belief of others. Forget it! Instead, think of doing something else like helping the poor, the needy, the homeless and the unfortunate people. There are plenty of them in the big cities and they are crying for help.

          • niknar

            Much better post!

          • floral

            For ALL have sinned and fallen short of the Glory of God. You believe in yourself, you believe in a sinner. The beginning of wisdom is reverence (awe) of the Lord.
            The fool says in his heart, there is no god.

          • floral

            the only punishment is to be without the Love of God for all eternity.

  • Brabado

    No one really cares or pays ANY attention to Atheists… They are born losers, are air heads looking for attention… any attention!
    Just ignore them till they get tire of it…and just sink into their own mud.
    MAY GOD BLESS AMERICA AND HELP THE HANDICAPPED ATHEIST TO FIND HIM!
    Semper fi.

  • Michael Dennewitz

    ISRAEL AND HER PEOPLE WILL NEVER, EVER BE DESTROYED!! PRAISE GOD!!🤔

  • Susan Short

    The fact of the matter is that the atheists have a lot bigger problem to deal with than Trump, a whole lot bigger! They just don’t know it yet, but they will find it out, the hard way!

    • Morton99

      Why is that ?

  • PatriotParatrooper

    Gotta love atheists. Why does religion bother them if they don’t believe in anything? The cross should be no different than a pencil, spoon, or any other inanimate object. Could it be that there mad at Christians for being happier? Scientifically, worshiping a higher power releases chemicals in the brain that give the feeling of euphoria, is this why atheists are so unhappy? That they want to make everyone else miserable? Or could it be, that in the dark, quiet night, they have to admit to themselves that if not for those 10 commandments, the moral compass that societies were built on, has kept them from being raped, robbed, or killed? And I bet, if I took a gun, and fired it at an atheist, the first thing out of thier mouth would be o god.

  • jeffnkr

    Each side has “bashed” the other, for many years. It’s way past time for everyone to show respect for differing views.

    • floral

      No, atheists have “bashed” Christians as believers in fairy tales, anti science ad nauseum. Atheists for the most part, including the bogus “organization” to which the article refers, are illogical, irrational, disrespectful and dismissive of the faiths of others.

  • David Greene

    I agree. There is no separation of church and state in the constitution or declaration of independence. And things were just fine until the 1950s when the Warren court started “establishing” a precident for keeping churches muzzled! If you just study our beginnings as a nation, the whole freedom to choose your religion says a lot. It was not freedom from religion, it was freedom of religion! And people, Islam is a religion! Now, having said that, I would hasten to say that if it is “join or off with your head,” then that is more than a religion. That is a totalitarian form of rule which makes it a form of government. It has already started sneaking into America with some courts allowing Sharia law to be entered into courtroom arguements. Anything that allows other nation’s laws to influence our rule of law will weaken our constitution and our form of government. That is another step down the slippery slope of moving away from all that is American! Nevertheless, we are to love all Americans – regardless of their point of view. “As far as is possible with you, be at Peace with all men, especially those of the household of faith.”

  • Rachel Brock

    To have religion and to be a Christian are two totally different things.

    • floral

      That is a concept, while true, eludes most people, including Christians.

  • Charles Wolfe jr

    When all atheists meet their maker , they’ll bow down to Him !!!

    • Rachel Brock

      Will be a sad day for sure. We must try to reach them now while there is still time.

  • Jerry Del Vecchio

    Guess they don’t understand (but use to harass the President) the First Amendment. It clearly states “…prohibits the making of any law respecting an establishment of religion (President Trump isn’t establishing a religion, he’s only exercising his FREE exercise of his religious belief. Can’t he have a religious belief out loud?), impeding the free exercise of religion, (the FFRF is also attempting to abridge the President’s right to FREE SPEECH. Why can’t the President express his wishes for a Merry Christmas without being bullied?) abridging the freedom of speech, infringing on the freedom of the press, interfering with the right to peaceably assemble or prohibiting the petitioning for a governmental redress of grievances.
    Regardless. If you believe that Christmas represents the coming of Christ or the coming of a new set of golf clubs…what difference does it make I express my belief and you express yours? Want to do something constructive…volunteer serving food at a homeless shelter and stop complaining,

  • pappy450

    There IS always another “freedom” available here in AMERICA…. you Atheists ARE “free” to leave OUR CHRISTIAN NATION and move to any MOOSLIME or “communist” nation of your choosing if you just can’t “handle” your life here. (just denounce your citizenship and don’t come back we don’t want you) Clear enough???

  • Larry Brule

    TIME FOR THEM TO SHUT UP AND GET A LIFE AND LET US BELIEVERS DO AS WE MAY!

  • Anne Latella

    Hooray for President Trump!

  • PION🇺🇸🇺🇸R

    Jesus did not make the distinction in my readings. He did say to take care of those who need; and if my vote serves to deny anyone, I am acting to deny the care he commanded. Nuff said. Bye

    • floral

      too much inaccurate said.

  • donl

    Guess what pal, I’m a Christian and I’m sick and tired of turning to the other cheek!! I will and DO stand my ground when it comes to people like you!! If you are an atheist then you are a Communist, They go hand in hand. I dislike both.

  • PION🇺🇸🇺🇸R

    Have it your way. I see that as rationalizing away responsibility for those less fortunate than we are. Cut programs. Cut taxes. Eliminate responsibility. Thus, let the children go hungry. Let the homeless freeze on the streets. Let those in prison be abused. Let the Ill care for themselves. Oh yes, what a “Christian” nation.

    • floral

      Responsibility is only eliminated by welfare (something for nothing). Giving money and food may be your bag, but it is not government’s responsibility nor power under the Constitution. Government is creating irresponsibility by “giving” taxpayers’ money to ne’er do wells and creating a permanent underclass and the worst kind of slavery-entitlement.

      • PION🇺🇸🇺🇸R

        Where did you have a polisci course?

        • floral

          What makes you think I have one and why would you care? You have not asked anyone else where they get their info. You think knowing where will allow you to criticise and denigrate me more? You clearly do not have any real knowledge of the Constitution OR the Founding. If you care to learn, take Hillsdale.org online course in the Constitution101 and Public Policy from a Constitutional standpoint and their course on C.S. Lewis. I did get a Con Law degree from a leftist university. Had to learn the truth on my own with the help of Chief Justice Story’s Commentaries on the Constitution, the Federalist Papers, and all the writings of the Founders, almost all of whom were Christian.

          • PION🇺🇸🇺🇸R

            O.k. What else would I expect. The domain you suggest is for sale.

          • floral

            No, Hillsdale University is one of the oldest continual universities in the US, predating the Civil war and is engaged in Constitutional education. I attended more than one university over the years from which I got degrees, or courses of study. I wish I had gotten my degrees from Hillsdale.

            Sorry. hillsdale.edu

          • PION🇺🇸🇺🇸R

            Oops. Founders probably Deists.

          • floral

            No, the Founders were 98% Christians. The Constitutional Convention had 100 members and 98 of them claimed a denomination of Chrisitianity. The original colonists were Christians looking for religious freedom from the theocracy of Britain. The population at the time of the Revolution was Christian even with the influx of British loyalist Anglican.

          • floral

            oh ye of no knowledge. The Founders 98% of them CLAIMED a Christian denomination and many of them were ministers of the Gospel.

          • PION🇺🇸🇺🇸R

            Christians, yes, and of the Deist, rather than Theist, perspective.

          • floral

            No.

          • floral

            Wrong! Christians at the Founding and the Founders, did NOT have a deist
            perspective. To say the Founders were deists is to misunderstand and
            exaggerate the very short term deist “influence”. There was no
            “movement” of deism. The Founders’s, including the pastors (who were the
            “intellectuals” and best educated) rejected Paine’s criticism of
            Christianity and ultimately rejected Paine as a crackpot.

          • PION🇺🇸🇺🇸R

            I will not disagree with you. Some were deists. Some were theists. I do not claim to be an expert on the numbers.

          • floral

            98% were CHRISTIAN. 2 claimed to be Atheists.

  • Timothy Toroian

    Pompous asses!!! They think their crap doesn’t stick!! What the hell do they think makes them any better than any one else? Millions hornor Christmas and they want him to cow-tow to their minority? If they believed in hell I’d tell them to take the express, but since they don’t I’ll just tell them to disappear into nothingness.

    • Morton99

      Its a free country – you can ‘thank Trump for giving you back Christmas’ but you know that is just a juvenile insult because Obama never took it away from anyone.

      • floral

        bo took a lot away with his incompetence, lies, confused ideology and attempt to subsume the US Constitution and Republic to the 3rd wld greedy, vile UN

        • Morton99

          Have you been drinking ? Huh ?

          • floral

            Best you can do? I don’t drink and bo was and still is incompetent, confused and a liar.

          • Morton99

            Just remember that crystal meth is NOT an organic protein and mood enhancer

          • floral

            ????you have more experience with meth than do I…….except for trying to get the police to do something about the meth dealers and users who infest my neighborhood.

          • Morton99

            I probably do ! Yes I do quite a lot of volunteer work to help these wretched addicts.

          • floral

            I don’t need YOUR help-not my problem

          • niknar

            More likely opioids or just plain gullible.

  • AFVET

    These people are part of the AAA Club. Atheists, Anarchists, and Assholes! No need to discuss further.

  • GuardianFlame

    Liberal Atheists have been babied way too long. It’s time for them to back off, shut up and find another reason for existence.

    Morals, Faith, Recognizing your Conscience, etc are now on parade. Everything athiests hate is being chosen. It might be good for them to quietly back away and do what embarassed people do…cry uncontrollably.

    • niknar

      So what about conservative atheists? And liberal Christians? There are plenty of people in both these groups as well. Do you want to condemn them, too, or not, & why (not)?

      • GuardianFlame

        No reason to condemn anyone but the atheists who expect the World to stop for them and do their biding. That is very narcissistic.

        You don’t find other people demanding anything of the atheists. But you do find atheists demanding crosses be removed from our Military graves, any U.S. Flag/Cross displayed on public lands or any public Nativity display, as well as removing prayers from our public schools and Sporting events.

        By the way, prayers at the beginning of school always settled down the students and helped them behave better. Kiss that good bye.

        Most of the things the atheists want are things that will affect hundreds or thousands of people. Why are atheists so important to cause those many people sadness? There is no reason to please a few and make the majority unhappy.

        For example, if they have to drive by s Nativity scene to or from work. All they have to do is not look at the scene when driving by. Do they have a broken neck and can’t turn their heads? Of course not. They just want to push their lack of faith on evetyone else so THEY DON’T FEEL SO GUILTY ABT NOT BELIEVING IN GOD.

        Every atheist I’ve ever met gets the same reply from me: “There will be a time when you will need someone or something bigger than yourself to believe in and that is when you will turn to God for forgiveness.” It’s interesting how many of those people HAVE RETURNED TO GOD. The ones out there making life miserable for everyone else haven’t needed God’s help yet, but they will – especially in today’s world — they will!

        • niknar

          I am against forcing people to hide their religious beliefs, including taking down nativity scenes, preventing people from wearing head scarves, or condemning people for saying “Merry Christmas”, none of which threaten or hurt anybody else (in fact, they’re usually intended to do the opposite). I find criticism of all that unnecessary & counterproductive. But forcing religious rituals on people is also clearly wrong.

          • GuardianFlame

            I totally agree. But a Seasonal Greeting is different than a religious ritual and that should not be received with anger, but with a smile.

            Why is it some people just have to demand that others do as “they” want instead of living in harmony with each other? I can accept most people’s way of life as long as they do not shove it in my face on purpose. I believe it is called “Respecting” other’s beliefs and cultural upbringing. You get what you give…give Hate, get Hate back. Give Love, get Love back. It’s really that easy…

          • niknar

            I completely concur.

  • desert fox

    Hey, Atheists, I am praying for you and we will celebrate your special day on April 1st. That’s April Fools Day. And with these God Haters it forces me again to believe in gun control—-EVERY HOME SHOULD HAVE ONE! God is stoking the fires for you.

  • Skip Moreland

    We bash him for being a hypocrite. This guy never attended church, never was a christian. Now in order to woo the vote, he is all for christians and the christians fall for his con line.

    • niknar

      Exactly!

  • Gary Von Neida

    Atheist believers (?) in nothing have something in common with the anti-christ religion known as Islamists; neither believe that Christ died for Our collective sins and They still think deeds (like killing people without discrimination) will get Them into heaven.

    • niknar

      Since atheists don’t believe in heaven, what you just said must be false.

      • floral

        You misunderstand, perhaps deliberately (atheists have something in COMMON with islamists-non belief in Christ. ISLAMISTS believe that the main ticket to paradise is killing non muslims.

        • niknar

          …which include atheists.

          And what you said has nothing to do with what I said.

          • floral

            Yes it does, has everything to do with what you said. Gary was artless in his sentence construction but he knew that atheists only have in common with islamists a denial of the Christ. AND islamists believe their ticket to paradise was to kill non believers.
            Your reply was false because you assumed what was not necessarily in his comment.

          • niknar

            What I said is that his statement was false because he said that atheists think that certain deeds will get them into heaven, which cannot be true since atheists don’t believe in heaven. Your poor reading comprehension & nonsensical logic keep leading you to make such ludicrous, inappropriate & patently false statements.

          • floral

            But he did NOT, you just said he did. You leap to conclusions that are unfounded then double down and insult when the criticism belongs to you as the one whose reading comprehension is not just poor but nonexistent, leading YOU to make ludicrous inappropriate and patently false statements.

          • niknar

            Conversing with you has proven a big waste of time, as you are incapable of processing information correctly or thoughts logically.

          • floral

            That is you in a nutshell. The person you insulted and condemned about heaven, tried to explain to you that what he wrote was what I said he wrote but you ignored that to pretend you were right. YOU are illogical.
            You have NOT conversed, because you refuse to acknowledge what others say and reply to something never said.
            Don’t try to insult if you don’t want to waste time, because no one believes you, at least no one who actually thinks. Just stop.

          • niknar

            …says someone who couldn’t stop if her life depended on it.

          • floral

            Yet it is YOU who keeps trying to insult and insisting that what you actually are doing is what another does. If you think it a waste of time, then stop. I don’t care. I’ll block you when I get too bored with your childish-no scratch that-children are far more logical and rational, even when having temper tantrums. They have an excuse, being children. You however, never grew up and never learned how to have a conversation or discussion. Your arguments consist only of ad hominems and other fallacies.

    • Gary Von Neida

      A closer reading of what I said would reveal that it was Islamists that were the They. As far as Atheists go GOD does not force GRACE on Them, or anyone for that matter——-Christ is the Lamb and simply offered by GOD.

  • Nancy

    Why do these non-believing atheists stick their big noses in our Christianity. Do we make them put a cross on their land? We should fight back with these hoodlums, they better start believing in God or they will all end up in Hell.

  • Doxie

    These HATE-filled, totally around the bend, Cretons are trying to force their way of thinking on others though misinterpretation of the constitution and misleading rhetoric – – in other words …by LYING !!!

  • Snufy

    Hell is full of believers. No man shall enter eternal life except through Jesus Christ. All others will be cast into the firey furnace to their death.

  • Grammie B

    you know whats really sad? i keep reading all this nasty defensive angry answers back and fourth . Each of you trying to see who can out badmouth the other one. and you REALLY call your selves CHILDREN OF GOD —REALLY– how can this be. you say read the bible, maybe you need to look in the mirror , quiet down your own soul and BE STILL !!!!!! BECAUSE DON’T YOU REMEMBER THAT YOU , YOU, YOU, AS WELL AS I AND ANY OTHER NATIONALITY OR ANY AND EVERY PERSON ON THIS EARTH WILL ANSWER FOR OUR THOUGHTS, WORDS AND ACTIONS. when you hatefully and nastily speak of any other person you are putting God all mighty down. God doesn’t make junk. if he created them and loved them how can we do any less. we are commanded to love the sinner and hate the sin. when i hear you talking like you all are doing and you say you represent YOUR LORD????? THIS IS A LIE FROM THE PIT OF HELL. god did not treat his enemies this way . it;s o.k. to hate what some are trying to do in our country but you really should be asking god to love them in a way that would change their hearts and show them there is a better way. we can still stand our ground we can still be angry but we must not pull our selves down to their level for buy by Gods grace alone you would be standing in their shoes. So please focus on your own sin and ask God to give you a clean heart and righteous thoughts, words and actions so he will use you to bring those that are lost to salvation . then they will see as you say you do. that is if God really is the lord of your thoughts, words and actions. we are not to judge each other but we are to judge each others actions. so tell me what part of your words tonight come from your lord.??

    • niknar

      A much better expression of Christian values than I see elsewhere on this forum!

      • floral

        Yet you are incapable of understanding nor do you believe in Christian values.

        • niknar

          In your interpretation of Christian values, no!
          In Jesus’s interpretation of Christian values, yes!

          • floral

            You have expressed many atheist criticisms of Christianity. The only real value of Christianity, the core upon which it rests and without which Christianity does not exist, are the Sacrifice of the Lamb of God to pay for the sins of the world and HIS Resurrection to take away sin. HE said I am the Way the Truth and the LIFE, no man comes unto the Father except through ME (acceptance of the Gift of Salvation.
            That is NOT my interpretation as you interpret but the truth and the core of Christianity. The “values” do not exist without the Death and Resurrection.

            Neither your praise, insult or criticism of Christian values is valuable in any way.

  • PION🇺🇸🇺🇸R

    Your choice. Beware.

    • floral

      beware of PIO.

  • D P

    It is time to Stand and Be counted , your country needs you ! God had his hands all over the founding of this country . It is MAN who has corrupted it ! It is the silent who have allowed it !
    The invaders who continue to USE the Constitution as a tool to destroy this country ” Have forgotten ” one fundamental RULE , the Courts have been Corrupted ( BY PEOPLE ) who allow that infraction . This ” Constitution ” was written by Americans for America know other peoples’ are Granted the Rights therein . This was made so , in order to maintain a more Perfect Union . You are either an American (RACE) does not matter ” or ” you are my enemy ! You ” will ” uphold this ” Constitution and the Laws Therein ” with me as my friend and we together can keep it . Or I will die Defending it !

  • baitmando

    The sick and immoral left marches on.

  • Gammi2Anna

    I do not like to eat shrimp but my husband loves it. Guess what we do? We compromise. He eats shrimp when he wants to and I don’t ever eat shrimp because I don’t want to. So why is that atheists think that since they do not believe in the practice of religion that no one else should be allowed to follow our desire to be a Christian. I’m not denying them the right to be ab atheist. If a non-believer does not want anything to do with Christianity, that is their right. I will of course pray for them but if they choose to follow the devil instead then I will enjoy knowing that I am going to spend eternity in Heaven and be saddened to know they will spend eternity in Hell. This is what we also know as Freedom. God Loves all People and all He ask is that we Trust in Him.

  • homer1057

    Let’s look at the FACTS Ok. Mr. Trump supports Israel, and he supports Christians, huh, let’s SEE Jesus is THAT CHRIST of GOD and HE SUPPORTS Israel, in FACT HE created Israel so, let me see..Atheists support NONE of the above and believe man came from…slime or a big bang or many over “Billions'” of years out of someones ever changing imagination? Well, let’s see what FACT, that can and has been proven, or which Fantasy, which is a fake as a 10 cent dollar bill would GOD/Jesus support? Doesn’t take a brainiac to get this one right! But it does take an BLIND as a bat backing into a blizzard Atheist to not get this! I am siding w/Jesus Christ, and I am siding w/President (LEGAL too, w/a REAL U.S. Birth cert too, born in this country, and NOT a freeking Mussie) Trump! You BLIND BAT!

  • DaveyJ

    Suggest atheists read the Koran, really carefully! Hint: They will be killed. Same for Christians. Trump is not Obama. In fact he is the opposite. Obama was quite aware how the Koran reads. He just totally embraced that anti-American view. Hard to believe he got elected AFTER 9-11. The US main media, aka propaganda……has a Death Wish for the USA! Atheists believe in mostly in themselves. “Religion is the Opium of the Masses” Mao T Sung.

    • niknar

      There seems to be a lot of people who somehow believe that atheists are pro-Muslim & anti-Christian. No, atheists reject all religions.

      Another misconception by many is that atheists must be Communist or follow some other (non-religious) doctrinaire thinking. That is also incorrect. True free-thinkers will reject all rigid dogma, whether the object of worship is human or superhuman.

  • 9400budlang8406

    Life requires a life giver. Mom and dad give a body but only a life giver can make it live. The proof of this is the grave yard. If man could give life we would not keep dying. That life giver is the supreme creator, God. If atheist’s can’t accept this let them explain how they got here. They certainly didn’t bring themselves into existence. And when they die they will find they have made a critical and eternal mistake. Rethink your position atheist and come to Christ. He is the answer to your problem.

  • Sis McCarty

    Ignore the Atheist. God is going to take care of them.

  • PION🇺🇸🇺🇸R

    C’mon! “Feed my sheep.” Is not some namby pamby suggestion nor a spiritual opportunity. Sounds exactly like a command, order, request, directive, or whatever. Get with the plan!

    • floral

      To you.
      PS I don’t take orders from YOU. I will only listen to what MY Lord and Savior tells me, whether directly, thru HIS WORD, or TRUSTED shephards feel is important for me. YOU I do not trust or believe.

  • PION🇺🇸🇺🇸R

    Does the Bible have a role for civil government in caring for those who cannot, or will not (for whatever reason) care for themselves. Ya bet’cha life it does!
    “. . . I want to suggest that what size the government should be is the wrong question. A more useful discussion would be about the purposes of government and whether ours is fulfilling them. So let’s look at what the Bible says.

    The words of Paul in the 13th chapter of Romans are perhaps the most extensive teaching in the New Testament about the role and purposes of government. Paul says those purposes are twofold: to restrain evil by punishing evildoers and to serve peace and orderly conduct by rewarding good behavior. Civil authority is designed to be “God’s servant for your good” (13:4). Today we might say “the common good” is to be the focus and goal of government.

    So the purpose of government, according to Paul, is to protect and promote. Protect from the evil and promote the good, and we are even instructed to pay taxes for those purposes. So to disparage government per se — to see government as the central problem in society — is simply not a biblical position.

    First, government is supposed to protect its people. That certainly means protecting its citizens’ safety and security. Crime and violence will always be real in this world, and that’s why we have the police, who are meant to keep our streets, neighborhoods, and homes safe.

    Governments also need to protect their people judicially, and make sure our legal and court systems are procedurally just and fair. The biblical prophets regularly rail against corrupt court decisions and systems, in which the wealthy and powerful manipulate the legal processes for their own benefit and put the poor into greater debt or distress. The prophet Amos speaks directly to the courts (and government) when he says, “Hate evil, love good; maintain justice in the courts” (Amos 5:15 NIV).

    But along with protecting, what should governments promote? The prophets hold kings, rulers, judges, and even employers accountable to the demands of justice and fairness, therefore promoting those values.

    And the Scriptures say that governmental authority is to protect the poor in particular. The biblical prophets are consistent and adamant in their condemnation of injustice to the poor, and frequently follow their statements by requiring the king (the government) to act justly. That prophetic expectation did not apply only to the kings of Israel but was also extended to the kings of neighboring lands and peoples.

    Jeremiah, speaking of King Josiah, said, “He defended the cause of the poor and needy, and so all went well.”

    Psalm 72 begins with a prayer for kings or political leaders: “Give the king your justice, O God, and your righteousness to a king’s son. May he judge your people with righteousness, and your poor with justice. May the mountains yield prosperity for the people, and the hills, in righteousness. May he defend the cause of the poor of the people, give deliverance to the needy, and crush the oppressor.”

    There is a powerful vision here for promoting the common good — a vision of “righteous” prosperity for all the people, with special attention to the poor and to “deliverance” for the most vulnerable and needy, and even a concern for the land.

    [Caring for the Poor is Government’s Biblical Role
    By Jim Wallis 8-30-2012 ]

    • niknar

      What a beautiful & eloquent expression of the righteous Christian interpretation of the responsibilities of government, which is very contrary to the selfish, greedy deeds of many politicians & expressions of many on this forum!

      • floral

        That is NOT Christian, but the Judeo ethic and God’s command to the Kings of Israel, who failed.

        • niknar

          If Christianity resembles in any way what you claim, Lord help us all!

          • floral

            Non responsive and quite illogical. God’s commands to the kings of Israel in the Old Testament, are not what is said of government in the New Testament (Christianity)
            But yes, God help your foolishness.

          • niknar

            Anybody who says anything that disagrees with what you say must by default be illogical.

            (What I just said above is an illogical statement)

          • floral

            No just you, morton and pio and the rest of the lefties…..but you don’t disagree, you are non responsive and accusatory, so illogical. You argue ad hominem, not what I actually said.

          • niknar

            There is an extremely illogical devotee to Hillary Clinton that posts a lot on Mother Jones with whom I’d love you to have a dialogue. The circular arguments the 2 of you adamantly claim would run on endlessly & occupy the rest of your waking hours & keep you both from harassing other commenters.

          • floral

            the harrassment seems to come from you and pio……

  • robert sanders

    ATHEIST. THE CHILDREN OF HELL. HEHEHE JESUS WILL TAKE CARE OF THESE BASTARDS WHEN THEY ALL DIE.

    • PION🇺🇸🇺🇸R

      That’s a real “Christian” statement.

  • niknar

    It is so amazing to me how so many people who profess to believe in God could revere (almost like a god) someone as ungodly & contrary to the principles of Christianity as Trump. But if there’s something that the con-man-in-chief is expert at, it is playing on people’s fear & hatred & beliefs.

    • floral

      That would be bo. I know no one who “reveres” as a god, rumple, but in his first term, that reverence was given to bo. Was it because he was 1/2 white or less than 1/2 “black”? because it certainly was not because he had any real competence, experience or anything other than claiming to be saved but pandered mostly to muslims and set race relations back 100 yrs.

      • niknar

        More right-wing propaganda, all rubbish!

        • floral

          How logical rational and factual you are NOT

          • niknar

            Keep saying those words to yourself, & you’ll finally have me agreeing with you.

          • floral

            syntax and insult are not within your wheelhouse.

          • niknar

            …claims a deluded ignorant racist fool.

          • floral

            How pc kneejerk leftist illogic of you. Where is the definition of racist including what I wrote? Does not bo claim to be black, but is really 1/2 white? Does not he claim the muslim kenyan as his bio daddy? Are not kenyans mixed with Arab ancestry, due to the centuries of invasion, rapes and enslavement of the Kenyan native population?
            As to your unsupported claims of delusion and ignorance about me, your poorly constructed sentences and ineffective use of insulting adjectives speak to your lack of syntax, understanding of meanings and misuse of logic and lack of comprehension, not to mention your apparent lack of common sense.

          • niknar

            Continue this self-criticism! It could be cathartic.

          • floral

            Again, non responsive, but lots of namecalling

  • Henry Gregg Nash

    If the Atheist want to dash someone, the should bash themselves!

  • Brabado

    All America knows than Atheist are nothing but Empty Hot Air Heads, without a Compass, Flashlight or Map…
    A total waste of humanity and decency! Do you known any so called Atheist, that EVER amounted to anything, but BS…?
    Pay no attention to them, they will blow away like “storks in heat”!
    GOD BLESS AMERICA AND VANQUISH ALL ATHEIST FROM OUR BELOVED CHRISTIAN NATION!
    Semper fi.

    • Morton99

      Yes actually. Stephen Hawking – probably the most brilliant living scientist on the planet. I don’t actually know him, but I do have his book – A History of Time – which is in the Guiness Book of Records for the most prints sold from a single author in all time. He is very openly an atheist.

      • floral

        In your flawed and limited and biased opinion……

        • niknar

          It’s amazing how apt your retorts to others apply to yourself!

          • floral

            Not so amazing when the source YOU are the originator looking in the mirror.

    • floral

      I would not go so far. They are at least good for sharpening our faith and give me a laugh occasionally at their illogic and failed attempts at claiming intellectual superiority. Too bad they don’t know squat about anything……

  • PION🇺🇸🇺🇸R

    Do you apply the same criteria to tax breaks and tax cuts to corporations that give $,$$$,$$$,$$$ bonuses to execs while cutting jobs and benefits to workers?

    • floral

      Blame Harvard business for that “philosophy”, but it is not true for every corporation. When a CEO fails to perform, he gets fired by the stockholder investors.
      btw, do you apply the same criteria to union members getting to be excused from bocare and maintaining their $100/per hr benefits that caused auto prices to skyrocket and quality to drop and when bo violated fed bankruptcy laws, keeping all the union benefits and increased wages and wiping out the investors (most of whom were middleclass retirees, obtaining some if not all of their retirement funds from such investments)?

      • PION🇺🇸🇺🇸R

        You first! 🤔

        • floral

          What an unintelligent nonresponsive NOTHING!

          • PION🇺🇸🇺🇸R

            Well, are you going to answer my serious question? Or are you going to continue to make snide remarks to avoid answering?

          • floral

            The snide remarks are yours. What “serious” question? You have not asked any serious questions, just made non responsive fallacious comments. “you first” is NOT a question.

          • PION🇺🇸🇺🇸R

            21 hours ago I posed a question. You answered it with a tirade against unions and good pay for hard working persons. They are the people out of jobs and angry at a system that piles money at the top at the expense of the producers.

          • floral

            I answered it and then added a question of my own. Your question was general, accusatory and assumed all corporations were **!!**. I answered that. It is NOT a serious question, just a gotcha, assumptive fallacious one.

          • PION🇺🇸🇺🇸R

            If that was intended to address the question, and I was grading it on a “Blue book” examination, I would give it a “D” at best for obfuscation and avoiding the question. Sorry! 😞

          • floral

            You are NOT sorry and you cannot give a grade, you are NOT qualified. Your question was a logical fallacy and my answer was logical and YOU cannot answer MY question. You fail.

          • PION🇺🇸🇺🇸R

            Sorry, I did give a grade and did so for 30+ years.

          • floral

            , I was honor society, always got A’s, especially in social studies and English. Your comments and replies and ad hominems don’t credit you with any qualifications to judge My comments on logic, quality, knowledge or in any way.
            1 grade in 30 yrs-your syntax leaves a lot to be desired as do your sentence construction.

          • floral

            Do you have any idea what the union BOSSES make and how many union members get shafted due to their rules on seniority? And what about the forced dues to further the union BOSSES political lobbying?
            The UAW members get $100/hr in benefits, mostly for cadillac medical plans. BO violated bankruptcy rules to benefit the union bosses and screwed the senior bondholders, thousands of retiree investors, including me. I do NOT consider forced unionization and the graft involved to be “good pay for hardworking persons” I have worked for companies that were ordered to hire only “union” members and we had to hire 5 drunks or incompetents with seniority to sit around before we could hire 1 competent worker. UNIONS have destroyed US business.

          • floral

            No, the union members were NOT out of a job. AND, those out of jobs were mostly part of the problem-ie Bear Sterns, Lehman Bros, Washington, BofA et al and NOT union members.

  • Normie G

    Who cares what Athiests think?? They can all go to HeII! Ha Ha Ha!!!

  • john

    WHY SHOULD THESE ATHEIST TRY TO COMPLAIN ABOUT ANYTHING ,TIME TO ELIMINATE THAT CRAP,BRING RELIGION BACK IN THIS COUNTRY ,GOV ,SCHOOLS! WHEN THEY GOT THEIR RIGHTS THE COUNTRY WENT TO HELL

  • Matlonc

    Once a Christian nation always a Christian nation regardless of how many atheists protest, scream, stomp their feet, whine, and moan. Let them live in their miserable world without God. You don’t have to be a religious freak to understand the founding of the greatest nation in the history of the world.

  • Paul Otts

    The FFRF is little different from NAZI or NAMBA. They too, want to destroy our way of life.

  • dclach

    “Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion”: in the late 18th century context this meant that the should be no established church, such as the Anglican Church in England. There Nonconformists had no religious rights and Roman Catholics were not eligible to be elected to Parliament. That’s what the first amendment was designed to guard against: a national church supported by the state. It doesn’t at all mean that government should not be friendly to religion; if they had meant that they would not have had chaplains to Congress nor the opening of sessions with prayer. The problem we have now is that atheists are badly educated and not very bright and seek to impose their views on the rest of us.

  • Hopeful_One

    Atheists and others that believe in separating government from Christianity are enemies of the America established by our forefathers. They left England and other lands to establish a new homeland where they would be free from the religious persecution inflicted upon them by monarchs. The idea of religious freedom sprang from the Pilgrims and Puritans who suffered at the hands of these sectarian kings. But they did not want an atheist nation. Such a thought never entered their minds. They wanted a nation with pure Christianity where men were free to worship God according to their own conscience.

    My pastor, Stephen M. Brown, just spoke yesterday about the original author of religious freedom. His name is Jesus Christ. He did not call for the death or punishment of those who didn’t believe in him. He said, “I did not come to destroy men’s lives, but to save them. In another place he spoke of his enemies, the Pharisees, who plotted against him and eventually arrested him. He said, “They are blind leaders of the blind…both will fall into a ditch…leave them alone.”

    It was those chief leaders of the Jews that hated Jesus and wanted him destroyed. He warned his followers to beware of their “leaven.” He said that leaven was their teaching and their hypocrisy. Many sects have followed in the way of the Pharisees. The Catholics persecuted and killed those who dared to believe differently about Christ. England’s Anglicans persecuted the Puritans, Anabaptists, and separatists (Pilgrims). And many other sects have joined in to lift themselves up and exclude and persecute others, not seeking the way of the true Christ.

    When prayer and Bible reading were excluded from public schools by the Supreme Court after 164 years of religious freedom under the Constitution which welcomed and encouraged the teaching of pure Christianity to our children, it was the Baptists and other sects that supported these anti-Christian judges. From such evolved the Freedom from Religion groups wanting to stomp out every vestige of Christianity within our laws. These people are enemies of our Constitution and this United States founded with this great principle of religious liberty: the liberty to exercise our religion freely, incorporating Christian morality within our laws and ways of government. This nation would have never come about if our founders were at all like the freedom from religion people.

    The altered history found in recent American history books paints our forefathers as Deists and the such like, when older history books and letters with the very words of the founding fathers paints an entirely different picture. They very much believed in and loved Christ our Savior and wanted a nation that would always promote religious liberty, which to them, was Christianity. The Christ they loved did not persecute and kill men who didn’t believe as they. He forbid such things and told us to love our neighbor as ourselves.

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